Sean, please post your initial comments here. Tyler, please respond to Seans's comments here. (Responses count as quality comments as well as initial posts.)
All of us, have fun commenting here when we know our required comments have been posted.
Visitors are welcome to join the discussion by clicking on the word "comments" below.
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Welcome to Preachers' Meeting
We are glad you have dropped by!
You will notice some posts below that relate to various topics of discussion by our online community of preachers.
One of the purposes of Preachers' Meeting is to provide a place for young ministers or those recently called to preach to interact around the principles in a course of study recommended by our local group of preachers in the Southern Illinois area.
We invite you to look in on our conversations. If you would like to add comments as a guest, you are welcome to do so.
If this looks interesting to you, you may join us as we start a new session. You can look in the side bar (or sometimes it is moved to right below this post) to see the weekly requirements. We start new courses every 8 or 9 weeks. As already mentioned, you are welcome to comment as a guest before that time.
Below these posts, you will see the word, "comments." Just click on it, and you will see a box on the right side of the screen where you may add your comments.
Look around. Enjoy yourself, and come back often!
You will notice some posts below that relate to various topics of discussion by our online community of preachers.
One of the purposes of Preachers' Meeting is to provide a place for young ministers or those recently called to preach to interact around the principles in a course of study recommended by our local group of preachers in the Southern Illinois area.
We invite you to look in on our conversations. If you would like to add comments as a guest, you are welcome to do so.
If this looks interesting to you, you may join us as we start a new session. You can look in the side bar (or sometimes it is moved to right below this post) to see the weekly requirements. We start new courses every 8 or 9 weeks. As already mentioned, you are welcome to comment as a guest before that time.
Below these posts, you will see the word, "comments." Just click on it, and you will see a box on the right side of the screen where you may add your comments.
Look around. Enjoy yourself, and come back often!
Weekly Requirements
Here is a review of the general requirements for each week.
You have three assignments each week
(1) Make at least two initial posts in your posting area. The first one will be the name of the course, and the names (or numbers of the DVD's) of the chapters or lectures you will be covering during the week. The second one will be a comment on one of those chapters. You will receive one point for getting the first post in on Tuesday or Wednesday. You will also get a point for getting at least one more initial post in.
(2) Go to your fellow student's posting areas, and ask them a question or make comments about their intial posts. You will recieve one point for completing this assignment before 12:00 a.m. on Friday morning (that would be before midnight on Thursday).
(3) Answer the questions asked.
(4) On Fridays, I will also give directions for making remaining posts during the week. Be sure and read those, and take them into account when making at least one of your remaining posts.
In all, we want to make at least nine posts during the week. You will receive points for that as follows:
9 or more posts - 12 points
6-8 posts - 10 points
3-5 posts - 6 points
1-2 posts - 3 points
You will have the extra points you had accumulated by getting things in on time. Those are bonus points that will be used only to move your grade closer to 100 if you need them. They will be awarded each week if needed to move your grade up to 12 for the week. If you do not need them for that week, they will be carried over to the next week(s). Remember the posts that count for points will be at least three sentences long.
You have three assignments each week
(1) Make at least two initial posts in your posting area. The first one will be the name of the course, and the names (or numbers of the DVD's) of the chapters or lectures you will be covering during the week. The second one will be a comment on one of those chapters. You will receive one point for getting the first post in on Tuesday or Wednesday. You will also get a point for getting at least one more initial post in.
(2) Go to your fellow student's posting areas, and ask them a question or make comments about their intial posts. You will recieve one point for completing this assignment before 12:00 a.m. on Friday morning (that would be before midnight on Thursday).
(3) Answer the questions asked.
(4) On Fridays, I will also give directions for making remaining posts during the week. Be sure and read those, and take them into account when making at least one of your remaining posts.
In all, we want to make at least nine posts during the week. You will receive points for that as follows:
9 or more posts - 12 points
6-8 posts - 10 points
3-5 posts - 6 points
1-2 posts - 3 points
You will have the extra points you had accumulated by getting things in on time. Those are bonus points that will be used only to move your grade closer to 100 if you need them. They will be awarded each week if needed to move your grade up to 12 for the week. If you do not need them for that week, they will be carried over to the next week(s). Remember the posts that count for points will be at least three sentences long.
Thoughts on Application
Roger gave some good thoughts on application:
"Chapter 75, titled: 'Apply Within' is a lesson in application. The writer explains why it is sometimes difficult applying a sermon to real life situations. I will list some of the reasons application is not applied to our lives.
"First it is "hard work", it is hard to find application to every situation in the congregation,
"second, is wrong assumptions, assuming the audience is able to apply any and all biblical truths is totally a wrong assumption,
"third, is fear, fear of being to deep or to simplistic in the text and failing at application, and then there is training or lack thereof,
"many preachers know the text, and the history and the order of things but are totally untrained in application. One gentleman said it this way," how can you be a good football player when you can pass the ball, or when you can kick the ball, or when you can run with the ball but you don't know the rules of the game."
"Chapter 75, titled: 'Apply Within' is a lesson in application. The writer explains why it is sometimes difficult applying a sermon to real life situations. I will list some of the reasons application is not applied to our lives.
"First it is "hard work", it is hard to find application to every situation in the congregation,
"second, is wrong assumptions, assuming the audience is able to apply any and all biblical truths is totally a wrong assumption,
"third, is fear, fear of being to deep or to simplistic in the text and failing at application, and then there is training or lack thereof,
"many preachers know the text, and the history and the order of things but are totally untrained in application. One gentleman said it this way," how can you be a good football player when you can pass the ball, or when you can kick the ball, or when you can run with the ball but you don't know the rules of the game."
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Good Links
Marriage Tips and Other Ideas
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Marriage Seminar
If you live in the souther Illinois area, we would like to invite you to a Couples' Marriage Enrichment Seminar on Saturday, February 27. It starts at 6:00 p.m and will run to 9:00 p.m.
After the welcome, there will be a dinner. Then there will be an opening session, followed by two breakout sessions, then a short closing.
The Keynote Speaker is Dr. Randy Carney (That's me :)!) and Roger and Janet Dutton will be speaking during the breakout sessions (That's Roger, who is commenting on this blog during this term!). Randy and Rhonda (my wife!) Carney will also have a breakout session discussing "Keys to Marital Bliss."
The Keynote Address will be on the topic of "The Way to a Successful Marriage: The Shocking and Surprising Truth."
Roger and Janet will be talking about "Hope for Restoring your marriage."
The cost is $15.00 per couple and that includes a dinner and all seminar materials. A nursery and childcare will be available. (Please indicate that you need these services when you register.) A book table with resources from Handfuls on Purpose Christian Bookstore will be available.
The seminar is for couples of all ages, ranging from newlyweds to marriage veterans!
To register, call 618-627-2228 to let the church know how may will be attending. Payment can be made at the event. (Make checks to TFBC.) For more information, call the church at 618-627-2228.
After the welcome, there will be a dinner. Then there will be an opening session, followed by two breakout sessions, then a short closing.
The Keynote Speaker is Dr. Randy Carney (That's me :)!) and Roger and Janet Dutton will be speaking during the breakout sessions (That's Roger, who is commenting on this blog during this term!). Randy and Rhonda (my wife!) Carney will also have a breakout session discussing "Keys to Marital Bliss."
The Keynote Address will be on the topic of "The Way to a Successful Marriage: The Shocking and Surprising Truth."
Roger and Janet will be talking about "Hope for Restoring your marriage."
The cost is $15.00 per couple and that includes a dinner and all seminar materials. A nursery and childcare will be available. (Please indicate that you need these services when you register.) A book table with resources from Handfuls on Purpose Christian Bookstore will be available.
The seminar is for couples of all ages, ranging from newlyweds to marriage veterans!
To register, call 618-627-2228 to let the church know how may will be attending. Payment can be made at the event. (Make checks to TFBC.) For more information, call the church at 618-627-2228.
The Greatest Love
Since Valentine's Day falls on Sunday this year, I imagine there will be a ton of sermons going out on the topic of love.
Paul talked about love and respect in marriage (Ephesians 5), but he was really saying that that was an illustration of the relationship between Christ and the church.
Christ
Left Heaven to come to this earth.
He
Overcame adversity while here. He even conquered death!
He
Valued mankind so much that He gave Himself on the cross.
He desires fellowship with us. He reconciled the world to Himself, so that people could have an
Intimate realtionship with Him.
He meets all of our
Needs.
He is the supreme example of
Giving.
Do you see the word, LOVING, there? That is what He is--our LOVING Savior! Because of that, we should love one another.
Paul talked about love and respect in marriage (Ephesians 5), but he was really saying that that was an illustration of the relationship between Christ and the church.
Christ
Left Heaven to come to this earth.
He
Overcame adversity while here. He even conquered death!
He
Valued mankind so much that He gave Himself on the cross.
He desires fellowship with us. He reconciled the world to Himself, so that people could have an
Intimate realtionship with Him.
He meets all of our
Needs.
He is the supreme example of
Giving.
Do you see the word, LOVING, there? That is what He is--our LOVING Savior! Because of that, we should love one another.
Course 11 Week 4
Scroll down to the week 4 area to begin commenting.
Dealing with the Closed American Mind
One of the chapters Roger is reading is entitled, (something like) "Dealing with the Closed American Mind." I don't know if it is mentioned in the chapter, but I suspect that if you tak about something where a person has a felt need, you can gain their hearing somewhat.
What are your thoughts?
You may scroll down and comment in the week 3 comments area. Visitors are welcome to comment also.
What are your thoughts?
You may scroll down and comment in the week 3 comments area. Visitors are welcome to comment also.
Connecting with Postmoderns
This is something most preachers do every Sunday. If you have young unchurched visitors in your church, you will be trying to reach postmoderns. Even some of your church youth are more influenced by postmodernism than by their previous Sunday school teaching.
Here is my reply to one of Roger's posts:
"Roger, what tips stand out to you for commecting with postmoderns? I think the term modern referred to an age in history that related to new thoughts in science, etc. (If I am off base, refresh my memory.) Post modern refers to the time following that era. Connecting with postmoderns is something you have to do, whether you realize it or not, almost every time you preach."
I will post some of his answers here if he sees the question in time.
Here is my reply to one of Roger's posts:
"Roger, what tips stand out to you for commecting with postmoderns? I think the term modern referred to an age in history that related to new thoughts in science, etc. (If I am off base, refresh my memory.) Post modern refers to the time following that era. Connecting with postmoderns is something you have to do, whether you realize it or not, almost every time you preach."
I will post some of his answers here if he sees the question in time.
Preaching--Proclamation of God's Word
Preaching, by one definition, is the proclamation of God's Word. As such, a person, can take the Scriptural passage and find some of its main points and emphasize those points.
While I believe we should learn all we can about the grammatical construction of the words of Scripture, and that we should learn all we can about the historical setting for when those words were originally spoken; the nice thing about proclaiming the Word is that you can just take what the text says and emphasize it. Then the Word will not return void.
People with all different types of backgrounds have been called to preach throughout the centuries. Some very "unlearned" (as the world would put it) men have had great results by simply taking the main ideas of Scripture and simply emphasizing them. As long as we do not twist the meaning, this simply shows the amazing power of the Word of God.
While I believe we should learn all we can about the grammatical construction of the words of Scripture, and that we should learn all we can about the historical setting for when those words were originally spoken; the nice thing about proclaiming the Word is that you can just take what the text says and emphasize it. Then the Word will not return void.
People with all different types of backgrounds have been called to preach throughout the centuries. Some very "unlearned" (as the world would put it) men have had great results by simply taking the main ideas of Scripture and simply emphasizing them. As long as we do not twist the meaning, this simply shows the amazing power of the Word of God.
New Format
I am going to try putting my comments for each day in this left sidebar. The comments areas for the remaining weeks are displayed to the right. That is where you will place your comments for each week.
22 comments:
My book is " The Art & Craft of Biblical Preaching" by Haddon Robinson & Craig Brian Larson.
I have 190 chapters left and hope to discuss 19 this week.
Ch 10 is called Spiritual Formation Through Preaching: 4 Components of Preaching that Changes lives. It says Holy Spitit anointed preaching is the means that seems best designed to aid spritual formation.
The four things that it brings out to insure spiritual formation preaching is that it should be..
1. Bible based, this should go without saying.
2. Spirit energized, this I believe is acheived by prayer which keeps your relationship with God growing.
3. Verdict Demanding, your message should drive a point home that requires action.
4. Audience connected, talk to your audience in terms they can relate to.
Ch 11 Preaching Life into the Church: How God uses the ministry of His Word to create and strengthen his body.
It talks first of God calling his church through preaching. Then it talks of God growing his church thru preaching. It mentions that salvation "starts when the Word is preached".
Then it goes into 4 implications from the previous 2 paragraphs.
1. Audience analysis, basically know your audience.
2. The best preaching is done by pastors, this I belive to be true because you'll have a better understanding of present issues with your congregation.
3. Preaching and counselling intersect, you must listen before you talk. Again, knowing your audience.
4. Preaching and Leadership intersect, Good preachers should be good leaders in being able to build up their workers to grow in God, therefore leading them to do Gods will.
Hey, guys, good job on the initial posts. Maybe I confused the issue when I said something about getting the required posts in first, and then I said something about doing two posts a day. I just meant to start with two quality posts and then to do unlimited discussion each day. That discussion will probably run up the 9 posts right quick. Then you could just do whatever you wanted as long as we discuss the chapters at some point and as long we each logon 5 times during the week.
My intent was for you to do your two minimum posts, and then to comment on each other's commentes. Maybe you did understand, but I'm sorry if I confused the issue.
Randy
When talking to your audience in terms to which they can relate, I'm reminded of the preacher who said it is "good to put the cookies on the bottom shelf" where everyone can reach them.
We will be using some words that form a specialized vocabulary as we go through this course--like "amanuensis" which I mentioned in the Week 7 areas. That is a word that is good to know, but I would not use it when preaching. If I had to discuss that process at all, I would just say that someone wrote down an author's words.
I also do not know of any other "canonized" writings. I have never read anything that went outside of the Bible in that regard. I also liked Sean's point about reading the Bible in spirit. I think that a lot of people don't understand because they really can't. We know that the Bible is God-breathed, but others don't because all that they see is "old writings". I see this attitude frequently when I try to witness at work.
Tyler
Yes, people nowadays do not have the same views of the Bible that many non-Christians did have in the past. Then, many of them may have said, "I'm not doing what this book says, but I do believe it is a holy book."
People must first believe that "God is" before we could go into the truth of trying to teach them about the uniqueness of the Bible. On the other hand, we can speak from that authoritative word, and watch the Holy Spirit do some unusual work in their lives.
On "Preaching Life into the Church: How God uses the ministry of His Word to create and strengthen his body," I have heard several pastors say that their best "counseling" is done from the pulpit. There is a lot to be said for that. Preaching that deals with life can help people without tying up their time in meeting with counselors. (I'm not saying there is never a need for meeeting with a Christian counselor, however.)
Ch 12 My Theory on Homiletics; 3 ideas shape my approach to preaching.// I actually had never heard this word before but it uses it a lot in this book so far. The best description I've found is its the study of the compostion and delivery of a sermon. This chapter talks breifly structuring a sermon. He starts with an idea, the idea coincide with the idea of the passage you use. Ten communicate the idea with current times.
Ch 13 Staying on the Line: What it means to go above or below the exacting line of truth/// The sum of this chapter is to not to add or take away from the Word. It uses examples of the 1st preacher (Adam) who failed to speak up when Satan was tempting Eve. It also uses Saul when he disobeyed God in keeping the choice flocks instead of destroying it all. It then shows how Jesus stayed the line, it uses the scripture of when Jesus was lead into the wilderness, and then goes into the section where the Pharisee's qustioned him on divorce. It ends with what God calls us to do; 2 or 4: 1-2 & 2 Tim 2:15
Ch 14 History of preaching: Assessing todays preaching in light of history: This chapter is a look at different styles of preaching that has evolved thru history.
1. Teacher preachers, this is self explanitory. A modern example of who they use is Jack Hayford.
2. Herald preachers, it explains this a being somewhat similar to teaching, but instead og using a lot of small details, herald preaching uses the bigger idea and is more dramatic in presenting it. They use Billy Graham as an example.
3. Inductive preachers, this style is preaching to meet the hearers needs. More evangelistic and apolgetic. It uses Rick Warren as an example.
4. Narrative preachers, these are basically storytellers in getting their idea across. They use Max Lucado as an example.
The chapter then goes into different time periods up to now. I think most speakers have their own style they are comfortable with, but probobly use all these styles from time time.
Part 2 - The Sprirtual Life of the Preacher: How should I attend my soul so that I am spiritually prepared to preach?
Ch 15. A cup running over: Why preachers must find deep satisfaction in Christ/// This chapter brings up the need for pastors to have time alone with God. Not necessarily praying but quality time. It talks about how if a preachers walk with the Lord is strong and healthy, then it will come out of their sermons in a way that the audience will sense it. It seems like common sense, but I also can read this and feel like I need this advice. Why are we so easy to get too busy?
I know I'm posting a lot but right now work is hopping and I have 2 boys playing baseball. Thursdays always seem to be my slowest work day, I dont know why but it is.
Its a busy time. I try not to worry about it too much. My family life is busy but I also know that it wont be this way forever, so part of me says to be happy for it.
It seems tome that we really let ourselves get too busy. I am just as guilty as the next guy when it comes to this. We have let the things of the world take over sometimes. I find personally that if I just stand on my principles and put God first, He really opens up oppertunities for me to do the things that I like to do. For example, my wife and I never schedule anything on sundays or wednesdays. Our friends and family don't ask us to do things that would interfere with church anymore. We just had to take a stand and tell them that we were not comprimising anymore about God. Now, God always gives us chances to do things with each other and our family even more than we used to.
Tyler
Sean, you are doing an excellent job with your summaries and you may continue to do so if you have time; however, I do have compassion on you that your are deling with 19 chapters this week. We would like at lest the names of the remaining chapters and maybe a higlight of the chapter if you get into a situation where you cannot type as much as you have been doing. You have already reached your number of posts that needed to be at least three sentences long. (I think Tyler will reach that number tomorrow also.) The only requirement left is to make sure you have logged on at least five times during the week. so, with the pressure off, have fun reading your chapters. If you want to keep giving good summaries as you have done, I'm not complaining--just having compassion on the number of chapters you are dealing with (even though they may be shorter chapters than usual.)
Anyway, good job, both of you.
Hey fellows, I just decided to leave my typos in the last post.
:)
I thought about what you are saying about posting on each chapter last night, I am enjoying this book very much. In fact, Tracy went and bought a copy because I know I'll find it very helpful after this course. I'm going to do my best on commenting on each one but I agree, it probobly wont happen.
I'll list the chapters and talk on the ones that maybe stand out more.
Also, when you commented on important words, there is another word that has caught my attention, or I hadn't heard of. Its "unction". I didn't realize that it had a particular meaning in relgion. What I'm thinking it means is the actual "feel" or "spirit" of a sermon. Let me know what you think.
I have been thinking about all these good posts this week. It has really helped me. There have been so many big words that I am having trouble remembering any of them. I will try, however, the method that Randy was discussing. I think that it will be interesting to see how close my guesses will actually be.
Tyler
I think unction does relate to the spirit or feel of a sermon, and that it also represents a motivating force. It carries with it the idea of power. Now, I will see if I can find a dictionary meaning.
Here are two definitions gleaned from dictionary.com
6. the manifestation of spiritual or religious inspiration.
That one relates to what we are describing. I think it is interesteing that it also relates to anointing (like with oil.)
We often pray for an anointing (in a spiritual sense) for a preacher when he is getting ready to deliver a message. Another dictionary.com entry said,
1. The act of anointing, smearing, or rubbing with an unguent, oil, or ointment, especially for medical purposes, or as a symbol of consecration; as, mercurial unction.
Randy
Have a great weekend!
Tyler, I hope things go well for you when you are preaching tomorrow.
Randy
Thank you, Randy. I am excited about preaching, but I am also nervous about it, too. The Lord has sent me in a direction that I have never been before. The message that He has led me to is, to say the least, different than any message that I have ever preached. Please remember me in prayer.
Tyler
Ch 16 The Patented Preacher: Talks about finding your own style.
Ch 17 I prayed for my Preaching: One point was to be specific in praying
Ch 18 How does unction function? what the feel of the sermon is.
Ch 19 Squeaky clean: Brings up importance of personal integrity
Ch 20 Required Reading: Imprtance of reading & studying. It brings up 2 Tim 4:13, where Paul asks for his parchments, and how after all he he had seen and done, he still thirsted for reading.
Ch 21 Rightly Dividing the Preaching Load: Talks of how having associate pastors helped his church and himself.
Ch 22 Preaching Through Personal Pain: It debates on if you should preach about your own problems. It says to Admit the pain, Be honest in your feelings, preach of the hope beyond the pain, and of patience in waiting for questions that seem to have no answer.
Ch 23 A Prophet among you: It talks of Holiness. It uses the story of Ezkiel to bring about points of how our country is losing its value, and do we mourn for it, holiness and love must work together. We alsmo must pray for our people to God. And We're as Holy as we want to be.
Ch 24 Burning Clean Fuel: It talks of our attitude towards our audience and ourselves. The dangers of preaching with an anger towards "pew sitters". It says to preach with a desire to see Gods kingdom advanced.
Ch 25 Backdraft preaching: The ups and downs of preaching, in terms of feeling up to it, how Mondays you feel spent, but by Sunday you're refreshed by the spirit. Hence the example of a backdraft, how a fire just about goes out, then a rush of wind fires it back up.
Ch 26 Why I pace before I preach: It talks of nervousness the night before you preach. Its good to be concerned.
Ch 27 Preaching to convulse the Demons. Talks of the story when Jesus cast out the demon of the little boy, following the Tranfiguration
Ch 28 Holy Expectation: It talks about how we get suprised sometime that our prayers actually get answered because we have small expectations.
This concludes Part 2.
Good job, Sean. I liked what you said about unction before, and it still "jumps out a little" when you mention it.
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