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Welcome to Preachers' Meeting
We are glad you have dropped by!
You will notice some posts below that relate to various topics of discussion by our online community of preachers.
One of the purposes of Preachers' Meeting is to provide a place for young ministers or those recently called to preach to interact around the principles in a course of study recommended by our local group of preachers in the Southern Illinois area.
We invite you to look in on our conversations. If you would like to add comments as a guest, you are welcome to do so.
If this looks interesting to you, you may join us as we start a new session. You can look in the side bar (or sometimes it is moved to right below this post) to see the weekly requirements. We start new courses every 8 or 9 weeks. As already mentioned, you are welcome to comment as a guest before that time.
Below these posts, you will see the word, "comments." Just click on it, and you will see a box on the right side of the screen where you may add your comments.
Look around. Enjoy yourself, and come back often!
You will notice some posts below that relate to various topics of discussion by our online community of preachers.
One of the purposes of Preachers' Meeting is to provide a place for young ministers or those recently called to preach to interact around the principles in a course of study recommended by our local group of preachers in the Southern Illinois area.
We invite you to look in on our conversations. If you would like to add comments as a guest, you are welcome to do so.
If this looks interesting to you, you may join us as we start a new session. You can look in the side bar (or sometimes it is moved to right below this post) to see the weekly requirements. We start new courses every 8 or 9 weeks. As already mentioned, you are welcome to comment as a guest before that time.
Below these posts, you will see the word, "comments." Just click on it, and you will see a box on the right side of the screen where you may add your comments.
Look around. Enjoy yourself, and come back often!
Weekly Requirements
Here is a review of the general requirements for each week.
You have three assignments each week
(1) Make at least two initial posts in your posting area. The first one will be the name of the course, and the names (or numbers of the DVD's) of the chapters or lectures you will be covering during the week. The second one will be a comment on one of those chapters. You will receive one point for getting the first post in on Tuesday or Wednesday. You will also get a point for getting at least one more initial post in.
(2) Go to your fellow student's posting areas, and ask them a question or make comments about their intial posts. You will recieve one point for completing this assignment before 12:00 a.m. on Friday morning (that would be before midnight on Thursday).
(3) Answer the questions asked.
(4) On Fridays, I will also give directions for making remaining posts during the week. Be sure and read those, and take them into account when making at least one of your remaining posts.
In all, we want to make at least nine posts during the week. You will receive points for that as follows:
9 or more posts - 12 points
6-8 posts - 10 points
3-5 posts - 6 points
1-2 posts - 3 points
You will have the extra points you had accumulated by getting things in on time. Those are bonus points that will be used only to move your grade closer to 100 if you need them. They will be awarded each week if needed to move your grade up to 12 for the week. If you do not need them for that week, they will be carried over to the next week(s). Remember the posts that count for points will be at least three sentences long.
You have three assignments each week
(1) Make at least two initial posts in your posting area. The first one will be the name of the course, and the names (or numbers of the DVD's) of the chapters or lectures you will be covering during the week. The second one will be a comment on one of those chapters. You will receive one point for getting the first post in on Tuesday or Wednesday. You will also get a point for getting at least one more initial post in.
(2) Go to your fellow student's posting areas, and ask them a question or make comments about their intial posts. You will recieve one point for completing this assignment before 12:00 a.m. on Friday morning (that would be before midnight on Thursday).
(3) Answer the questions asked.
(4) On Fridays, I will also give directions for making remaining posts during the week. Be sure and read those, and take them into account when making at least one of your remaining posts.
In all, we want to make at least nine posts during the week. You will receive points for that as follows:
9 or more posts - 12 points
6-8 posts - 10 points
3-5 posts - 6 points
1-2 posts - 3 points
You will have the extra points you had accumulated by getting things in on time. Those are bonus points that will be used only to move your grade closer to 100 if you need them. They will be awarded each week if needed to move your grade up to 12 for the week. If you do not need them for that week, they will be carried over to the next week(s). Remember the posts that count for points will be at least three sentences long.
Thoughts on Application
Roger gave some good thoughts on application:
"Chapter 75, titled: 'Apply Within' is a lesson in application. The writer explains why it is sometimes difficult applying a sermon to real life situations. I will list some of the reasons application is not applied to our lives.
"First it is "hard work", it is hard to find application to every situation in the congregation,
"second, is wrong assumptions, assuming the audience is able to apply any and all biblical truths is totally a wrong assumption,
"third, is fear, fear of being to deep or to simplistic in the text and failing at application, and then there is training or lack thereof,
"many preachers know the text, and the history and the order of things but are totally untrained in application. One gentleman said it this way," how can you be a good football player when you can pass the ball, or when you can kick the ball, or when you can run with the ball but you don't know the rules of the game."
"Chapter 75, titled: 'Apply Within' is a lesson in application. The writer explains why it is sometimes difficult applying a sermon to real life situations. I will list some of the reasons application is not applied to our lives.
"First it is "hard work", it is hard to find application to every situation in the congregation,
"second, is wrong assumptions, assuming the audience is able to apply any and all biblical truths is totally a wrong assumption,
"third, is fear, fear of being to deep or to simplistic in the text and failing at application, and then there is training or lack thereof,
"many preachers know the text, and the history and the order of things but are totally untrained in application. One gentleman said it this way," how can you be a good football player when you can pass the ball, or when you can kick the ball, or when you can run with the ball but you don't know the rules of the game."
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Good Links
Marriage Tips and Other Ideas
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Marriage Seminar
If you live in the souther Illinois area, we would like to invite you to a Couples' Marriage Enrichment Seminar on Saturday, February 27. It starts at 6:00 p.m and will run to 9:00 p.m.
After the welcome, there will be a dinner. Then there will be an opening session, followed by two breakout sessions, then a short closing.
The Keynote Speaker is Dr. Randy Carney (That's me :)!) and Roger and Janet Dutton will be speaking during the breakout sessions (That's Roger, who is commenting on this blog during this term!). Randy and Rhonda (my wife!) Carney will also have a breakout session discussing "Keys to Marital Bliss."
The Keynote Address will be on the topic of "The Way to a Successful Marriage: The Shocking and Surprising Truth."
Roger and Janet will be talking about "Hope for Restoring your marriage."
The cost is $15.00 per couple and that includes a dinner and all seminar materials. A nursery and childcare will be available. (Please indicate that you need these services when you register.) A book table with resources from Handfuls on Purpose Christian Bookstore will be available.
The seminar is for couples of all ages, ranging from newlyweds to marriage veterans!
To register, call 618-627-2228 to let the church know how may will be attending. Payment can be made at the event. (Make checks to TFBC.) For more information, call the church at 618-627-2228.
After the welcome, there will be a dinner. Then there will be an opening session, followed by two breakout sessions, then a short closing.
The Keynote Speaker is Dr. Randy Carney (That's me :)!) and Roger and Janet Dutton will be speaking during the breakout sessions (That's Roger, who is commenting on this blog during this term!). Randy and Rhonda (my wife!) Carney will also have a breakout session discussing "Keys to Marital Bliss."
The Keynote Address will be on the topic of "The Way to a Successful Marriage: The Shocking and Surprising Truth."
Roger and Janet will be talking about "Hope for Restoring your marriage."
The cost is $15.00 per couple and that includes a dinner and all seminar materials. A nursery and childcare will be available. (Please indicate that you need these services when you register.) A book table with resources from Handfuls on Purpose Christian Bookstore will be available.
The seminar is for couples of all ages, ranging from newlyweds to marriage veterans!
To register, call 618-627-2228 to let the church know how may will be attending. Payment can be made at the event. (Make checks to TFBC.) For more information, call the church at 618-627-2228.
The Greatest Love
Since Valentine's Day falls on Sunday this year, I imagine there will be a ton of sermons going out on the topic of love.
Paul talked about love and respect in marriage (Ephesians 5), but he was really saying that that was an illustration of the relationship between Christ and the church.
Christ
Left Heaven to come to this earth.
He
Overcame adversity while here. He even conquered death!
He
Valued mankind so much that He gave Himself on the cross.
He desires fellowship with us. He reconciled the world to Himself, so that people could have an
Intimate realtionship with Him.
He meets all of our
Needs.
He is the supreme example of
Giving.
Do you see the word, LOVING, there? That is what He is--our LOVING Savior! Because of that, we should love one another.
Paul talked about love and respect in marriage (Ephesians 5), but he was really saying that that was an illustration of the relationship between Christ and the church.
Christ
Left Heaven to come to this earth.
He
Overcame adversity while here. He even conquered death!
He
Valued mankind so much that He gave Himself on the cross.
He desires fellowship with us. He reconciled the world to Himself, so that people could have an
Intimate realtionship with Him.
He meets all of our
Needs.
He is the supreme example of
Giving.
Do you see the word, LOVING, there? That is what He is--our LOVING Savior! Because of that, we should love one another.
Course 11 Week 4
Scroll down to the week 4 area to begin commenting.
Dealing with the Closed American Mind
One of the chapters Roger is reading is entitled, (something like) "Dealing with the Closed American Mind." I don't know if it is mentioned in the chapter, but I suspect that if you tak about something where a person has a felt need, you can gain their hearing somewhat.
What are your thoughts?
You may scroll down and comment in the week 3 comments area. Visitors are welcome to comment also.
What are your thoughts?
You may scroll down and comment in the week 3 comments area. Visitors are welcome to comment also.
Connecting with Postmoderns
This is something most preachers do every Sunday. If you have young unchurched visitors in your church, you will be trying to reach postmoderns. Even some of your church youth are more influenced by postmodernism than by their previous Sunday school teaching.
Here is my reply to one of Roger's posts:
"Roger, what tips stand out to you for commecting with postmoderns? I think the term modern referred to an age in history that related to new thoughts in science, etc. (If I am off base, refresh my memory.) Post modern refers to the time following that era. Connecting with postmoderns is something you have to do, whether you realize it or not, almost every time you preach."
I will post some of his answers here if he sees the question in time.
Here is my reply to one of Roger's posts:
"Roger, what tips stand out to you for commecting with postmoderns? I think the term modern referred to an age in history that related to new thoughts in science, etc. (If I am off base, refresh my memory.) Post modern refers to the time following that era. Connecting with postmoderns is something you have to do, whether you realize it or not, almost every time you preach."
I will post some of his answers here if he sees the question in time.
Preaching--Proclamation of God's Word
Preaching, by one definition, is the proclamation of God's Word. As such, a person, can take the Scriptural passage and find some of its main points and emphasize those points.
While I believe we should learn all we can about the grammatical construction of the words of Scripture, and that we should learn all we can about the historical setting for when those words were originally spoken; the nice thing about proclaiming the Word is that you can just take what the text says and emphasize it. Then the Word will not return void.
People with all different types of backgrounds have been called to preach throughout the centuries. Some very "unlearned" (as the world would put it) men have had great results by simply taking the main ideas of Scripture and simply emphasizing them. As long as we do not twist the meaning, this simply shows the amazing power of the Word of God.
While I believe we should learn all we can about the grammatical construction of the words of Scripture, and that we should learn all we can about the historical setting for when those words were originally spoken; the nice thing about proclaiming the Word is that you can just take what the text says and emphasize it. Then the Word will not return void.
People with all different types of backgrounds have been called to preach throughout the centuries. Some very "unlearned" (as the world would put it) men have had great results by simply taking the main ideas of Scripture and simply emphasizing them. As long as we do not twist the meaning, this simply shows the amazing power of the Word of God.
New Format
I am going to try putting my comments for each day in this left sidebar. The comments areas for the remaining weeks are displayed to the right. That is where you will place your comments for each week.
29 comments:
The Art & Craft of Biblical Preaching by Robinson & Larson;
Part 3 Considering Hearers: How should I approach change depending on who is listening?
This part is longer than the last, I'm hoping to read this week more consistently. My boys are gone on vacation w/ my mom & dad, so it is a litte more quiet.
A word that come up that I didnt know the meaning is "exegesis". It only mentioned it twice in the chapter so I didnt get a idea of what it meant. I havent looked it up yet. Ever heard of it?
Yes, I have heard of it. Actually it is quite a common word used in religious schools, but it is otherwise not very well known. Before going to a dictionary, let's try some of the principles mentioned earlier. Would you list the two sentences in which it occured and maybe the sentences right before and after those?
Ch 29 Preaching to everyone in Particular: This speaks of trying to be aware of the diverse groups of people you're speaking to. One point I liked and agreed with was that you must know and listen to them.Also to be aware of possible offences in off color statements.
Ch 30 The Power of Simplicity: Uses Nehemiah to illustrate that the reading and explanation of the word caused a great repentance. To keep it simple. I taught childerens church and it made me realize that if you can speak to the younger kids and get them to listen and understand, you can speak to anyone.
Ch 31 View from the Pew: This brings up points in keeping the attention of the congregation. It brings up the importance of having a point, paint a picture of it, and to keep it short. It talks about us being a generation of TV and that we are used to a story being wrapped up in 30 min or less.
Ch 32 Preaching to Ordinary People: This reminds us that we are speaking to ordinary people, people with problems and you may not know it by looking at them. This is another reason of why I beleive you need to know and listen to your listeners. I have problems and sometimes I forget others do to.
Sean, Good posts, and good insights on the chapters mentioned.
please give us a list of the other titles of the chapters you will be dealing with this week. If we have the titles earlier in the week, we will be able to reflect and anticipate what may be interesting us later.
Also, how many chapters did you come up with when you divided how many you have left by the number of weeks left?
I hope your boys are doing well on vacation. Grandma and Grandpa are probably really enjoying themselves.
I do think the idea of simplicity has a lot of merit. That doesn't mean that we do not deal with heavier topics, but we will try to explain those ideas in as simple a fashion as possible.
I have 9 weeks left and this week I need to cover 19 chapters. I looked back yesterday for the chapter that dicussed exegisis and I couldnt find it so I'll try again today. I read so many different chapters that it gets tough looking back to find it. I'll list this weeks chapters after this one.
Ch 33 Why Serious Preachers use Humor: It states that there are 3 elements that make something funny; 1.Truth 2. Exaggeration 3. Suprise. It says that its nearly impoosible to exclude humor because if we're real with ourselves, you cant ignore that life is humorous. It also warns against inappropriate humor, obviously poking fun at race, gender, a persons weight, or sexual jokes.
Ch 34 Connect Hearers through dialouge
Ch 35 Self Disclosure that Glorifies Christ
Ch 36 How To Be Heard
Ch 37 Opening the Closed American Mind
Ch 38 Turning An Audience Into The Church
Ch 39 Preaching To Change The Heart
C 40 Preaching Truth, Justice, And The American Way
Ch 41 Preaching Morality In A Amoral Age
Ch 42 Cross-Cultured Preaching
Ch 43 Connecting With Postmoderns
Ch 44 Preaching amid Pluralism
Ch 45 Connecting With Non-Christians
Ch 46 How To Translate Male Sermons to Woman
Ch 47 He Said, She Heard
Ch 48 Connecting with Men
One thing that I like to do when I preach is try to get the congregation involved if I can. I think that it keeps people interested in the sermon. It also helps me to overcome my nerves and lets me relax a little bit. I have always been really nervous when I preach, but I think that it keeps me to where I have to lean on Him to do it for me.
Tyler
Ch 34 Connect Hearers Through Dialouge: It brings up the point of using dialouge to include the listeners. By testimony, or to preach by asking qustions.
Ch 35 Self-Disclosure that Glorifies Christ: This speaks of transparity in preaching, meaning when you use your own struggles as an example, make sure to show that you are striving to better yourself. If you use examples of how you triumphed in something, make sure to show Christ in it. So that He is glorified, and not yourself.
Ch 36 How to be Heard: It Gives 5points in speaking: 1 Start off with a positive atmosphere. 2 Speak to engage the mind, not just listen. 3 Make sure you believe what your talking about.People will pick up on things you're not sure about. 4 Make your voice inconspicuous, Basically its saying not to use it as an act, that it can become a distraction to the message. 5 Hand gestures. Your body language will show your attitude and can help drive a point home.
A word I've come across is "Levity".
1. Spurgeon emphasises that humor and levity are not synonymous.Cheerfulness is one thing, and frivolity is another;he is a wise man who by seious happiness of conversation steers between the dark rocks of moroseness and the quicksands of levity.
I havent looked it up, but I think of "uncaring"
I guess I really dont know what moroseness means either.
Concerning levity from (I assume) Spurgeon's quote, it sounds like it is involved in a contrats. Moroseness is paired with DARK rocks. And levity is paired with quicksand. It sounds like he is saying you should be somewhere between the two. Could his comment about cheerfulness be the middle ground? If moroseness is "dark", then the move toward cheerfulness is lighter and more positive. Could levity then be going even farther in that direction? Frivolity probably gives some clue also. Maybe it is a synonym. Probably not a synonym of moroseness because that relates to darkness. So, frivolity probably give some clue to the meaning of levity. The problem with levity as opposed to general cheerfulness, based on your thoughts, seem to relate to an action or condition that is also uncaring.
Taking into account what I have just said, let's refine our guess a little further.
Tyler, please add your thoughts to this discussion. It is O.K. if you also have had an idea from the past of what you thought the word means. Do you have additional insights-like "I always thought levity meant ________________," or maybe further thoughts or agreements (or perhaps different ideas) about the word, based on the context of our discussion?
Let's all talk a little more about it before we go to the dictionary.
Sean, thanks for the list. Some of the things that jump out at me when I look at the titles are:
Ch 46 How To Translate Male Sermons to Woman
Ch 47 He Said, She Heard
Ch 48 Connecting with Men
I'm really looking forward to those insights.
Also the statement: "If you use examples of how you triumphed in something, make sure to show Christ in it. " is pretty good!
Ch 37 Opening the Closed American Mind "Preaching to Skeptics": It 1st brings up to answer questions biblically, even though it probobly hurts, they will end up repecting you in the end. It gives the point of practicing what you preach, accept people as they are (is says" when the church requires people to clean up their lives, dress, and act a certain way BEFORE we will love them, we lose the respect of our culture" I liked that point. Dont try and play God, they're are some things you wont know the answer to. And to use the culture to introduce good news.
Ch 38 Turning an Audience into the Church "Transforming consumers into the committed": This starts on how our culture is so busy that church is just another stop in their busy week. But, it also shows how for some its sometimes the only time people actally get to "think". It warns on being cynical as far as perceiving your congregation as just wanting to be entertained. It finishes up on being a "pastor". Knowing your people in their everyday life.
Ch 39 Preaching to Change the Heart "Pauls example is Bold, couragous proclamation": This chapter shows how Paul Preached to Felix & his wife when he was under house arrest. It challenges us to ask if we would be like him in that situation. Meaning would we try to butter them up to get released or would we preach rightousness, self-control, and judgment as Paul did. This chapter read like a sermon.
Ch 40 Preaching Truth,Justice, and the American Way "On cultural myths and biblical authority": This speaks of the myths in America as far as a acquiring success, "the American Dream", it can drag people down because goals can become extreme, we need to preach that "everyday people" can be heroes in the faith right where they are at. Another myth is called "the wisdom of the rustic", meaning some beleive that good common sense is all you need. (which is important), but you will find out that "common sense" doesn't explain or answer some of life's twists.You still must have Christ. I also like when the author say "God also uses diligent study, solid research, and educated reasoning". The last myth is "Conspiracy", how we in America love to think that there's a conspiracy behind everything. He ends with " Its not just a matter of preaching truth, justice, and the American way, its a matter of preaching in an American way without doing injustice to The Way of Truth".
OK, I found the ch. with Exegesis.
Its under a section of 3 concerns of truthfulness in a sermon. the 1st area is Exegesis. It says" Truthfulness begins with sound exegesis. God's Word is given in human language, and language ineviably requires interpretation".
Thats the only time its in a sentence. My guess is that it has something to do with clarity of God's Word?
When I think of the quote from Spurgeon, I tink of the idea of being to "loose" or almost "slap-happy". I think that we should have fun, but not too much to where we do not take the Gospel seriously. I always go back to Ecclesiastes 3:1-8. We should always realize that there is time for everything. Just a thought.
Tyler
I think that exegesis may mean that the word needs to be studied and interpreted by teachers and preachers. I don't mean literal translations, but I mean trying to get more wisdom out of His Word.
Tyler
Ch 41 Preaching Morality in a Amoral Age "How can you blow the whistle when people dont beleive there are rules": This speaks of how this generation is a "if it works for you, great, but this works for me" mind set. It brings up another word for "detecting" the meaning of. Pragmatism. The sentences start as "I have found we must guide our preaching between 2 dangers- pragmatism and moralism- if the radical and fresh Christian message is to be understandable to today's hearers. he 1st danger is pragmatism". The paragrapgh goes on to talk about a new convert who makes a decision to change the way he runs his business. It ends up being highly sucessful. But, later he has a relationship with a married woman and reasons with himself that "true love is more important than the morality of his pastors version". It the says this mans "early embracing of Christianity shows why pragmatism can tempt a preacher. It reaps quick returns". So, I understand that some people might "use" Christ only for their own needs, therefore it fails them once it doesnt. So I really dont have a good grasp on what its meaning is.
Suggestions?
Ch 42 Cross-Cultural Preaching "How to connect in our multicultural world":This reminds us that we speak sometimes to people from other backgrounds, to be aware of their cultures. This includes our youth. If you make an attempt to understand them, they will pick up on it and hopefully listen.
Ch 43 Connecting With Postmoderns What to adopt, What to Adapt, What to oppose in postmodernism": 1st, the term "postmodernism" is vauge to me. I guess I can't put my finger on what it means. This chapter helps a little because it brings some things postmodernists believe. 2 beliefs to oppose was "Self-sacrifice is bad" & "Commitment is stupid". A couple of things that we can adopt and adapt are "The spirtual trumps the material" and that they like story-telling.
The term pragmatism makes me think of when people try to use the Bible to justify their actions. We all know those types of people. They try to take the Word and twist and turn it in order to make it work for that particular situation. That is why bible study and sunday school are so important.
Tyler
Ch 44 Preaching Amid Pluralism: This chapter discusses the belief that all religions are equal.It uses an example about lying. It states that if we say "Stop Lying, and tell truth, Jesus will forgive". It doesnt really reform anything on the inside, if we're lying because of fear of dissapproval of the other person. If we want approval from Jesus, it changes the way you look at lying and you have real change. It uses the word, transform.
It seem like we "might be getting there" on the words, "levity, exegesis, and pragmatism."
Read tomorrow's post from me before going to the dictionary for those words if you have not already gone there.
Ch 45 Connecting with Non-Christians: this gives advice on how to stucture sermons to prepare the audience. It suggests to raise a need in the context of the word first, then read and explain it.
Ch 46 How to Translate Male Sermoms to Women: This starts by explaining how men & woman think. Men think more direct, meaning more on one thing at a time, woman think more broader. It suggests using illiustrations that woman can relate to. It also brings up that the Bible is written in masculine terms. Though we know when the word "man" in the Bible pertains to everyone. The author suggests saying "men & woman" from time to time.
Ch 47 He Said,She Heard: this gives an example of how men and woman communicate. It says men are usually quick, to the point, and full of action. Woman will want to be a part of the conversation, more willing to engage with their listeners.
Ch 48 Connecting with Men: This ultimately reminds us to be ourselves in speaking, but it gives stories of a pastor and some tatooed men in his congregation. The pastor was insecure in his speaking and found through these men that because he explained the word well, it had brought them to a closer relationship with God.
Ah, you got to those chapters that piqued my interests. An interesting book that describes how some propose that men and women think differently is: Men Are Like Waffles and Women Are Like Spaghetti. It is a book about communication in marriage, but it has concepts in it that preachers would do well to be aware of also.
Pragmatism: I think of pragmatism as being sort of a synonym for practical. Pragmatism means that if something seems to work, you should go with that.
A dictionary definition is: a philosophical movement or system having various forms, but generally stressing practical consequences as constituting the essential criterion in determining meaning, truth, or value.
Pragmatism is O.K. unless it violates a principle of God's word. A couple may think it is pragmatic (practical) to live together without the benefit of marriage. In that case, pragmatism is not O.K.!
In other cases that do not violate Scripture, it is good to be practical.
Good job, finishing up your third week.
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