Preachers Meeting: Course 6 Week 7 Sean's Topics

Tuesday, March 17, 2009

Course 6 Week 7 Sean's Topics

13 comments:

sremery said...: The title of my course is The New Testament Survey; General Epistles & Revelation. Its a dvd course that uses the Bible as its text. The instructor is Matthew McAfee. I am doing 3 classes a week. I had a busy day yesterday, didnt get a chance to post.; March 18, 2009 at 7:43 AM
sremery said...: The first class deals with the genre of the book of Revelation. This really opens up some deep discussion on how people perceive Revelations, which leads into pre-trib, post trib, and amillennialism. I hadnt personally gave this much thought, or really understood it.; March 20, 2009 at 4:29 PM
sremery said...: On my assignment I'll discuss the teachers thoughts on pre & post trib, and amillinealism. I wasnt sure how I believed but after listening to him and a little reading on understanding the belief. I would have to say I sway towards amillenialism. He says that Jesus is presently reigning from heaven, seated at the right hand of God the Father,
that Jesus also is and will remain with the church until the end of the world, as he promised at the Ascension,
that at Pentecost, the millennium began, as is shown by Peter using the prophecies of Joel, about the coming of the kingdom, to explain what was happening. He says post trib was popular up until the world wars which started looking wrong in that they believed that the world was getting better and growing closer to purity. A more of an optomistic view.; March 20, 2009 at 4:55 PM
Dr. Randy Carney said...: Sean,

Was "He says post trib was popular up until the world wars which started looking wrong in that they believed that the world was getting better and growing closer to purity. A more of an optomistic view." that statement for "post trib" or "post millenial." That sounds like a descritption of post millenialism to me. What did the author say?

I tend to take a spiral view of history on this subject. I will hold off on commenting more about that now because you may spark some debate with your comments.; March 21, 2009 at 7:50 AM
sremery said...: You're right Randy, that was post millenealism. I must have had that on my brain, or its easier to spell. I dont like to comment on it a whole lot because I dont understand it very deeply. I believe ultimately that the world ends probobly every second for someone. You die, then the judgement, that seems clear to me. But in listening to the instructors case for amillenialism, it made sense to me, but I'm sure others can take scripture and back up their point.; March 21, 2009 at 9:11 AM
sremery said...: He started with the subject of genre on the book of Revelation. I wish I had wrote more notes on this to talk about it because he comes back to later in another class, but he says that Revelation can be looked at in different ways or genre. He lists 3 and I believe they were, 1. Apocolyptic 2. Prophetic. 3. As a epistle. He might have mentioned more but I remember those 3. It has all 3 of these qualities, but I like to read it as a book of Hope more than apocolyptic. More of a hope that suffering and pain will be over.; March 21, 2009 at 9:27 AM
Tyler Owens said...: There is even a view of mid-trib. This is that they think that three and a half years into the tribulation period, the rapture will take place. I have always been taught that the church will be raptured before the tribulation. I guess I am pre-trib.; March 21, 2009 at 8:31 PM
Tyler Owens said...: I have also been taught that the millenial reign will happen after the tribulation. I have heard that some people believe that we are in it right now. I have to disagree with that point. Jesus will be the one ruling the world. The Bible also says that Satan will be bound during this time. I believe that the devil is still working today and making things rough for everybody.; March 21, 2009 at 8:36 PM
Dr. Randy Carney said...: Sean, Good job on your comments.

If you haven't done the week's assignment yet, you need to try to get it done today. Otherwise,let me know where it was. Sometimes I miss someone doing an assignment because I thought there post was just a part of their general comments.; March 23, 2009 at 7:59 AM
Dr. Randy Carney said...: I will give you that "spiral view of history" later today or tonight if I am able.; March 23, 2009 at 8:00 AM
sremery said...: My assignment was on the postmillenial discussion, the instructor points out his belief in being an amillenialist as opposed to being a post-mil. I'm not sure what I am, but in hearing the description of the post-millenial belief, I dont know if I think that the world will gradually become completly saved before Christ 2nd coming.; March 23, 2009 at 3:39 PM
Dr. Randy Carney said...: So, how does someone being misinformed, or underinformed, or uniformed, or illogical relate to the discussion of postmillenialism?

Oh wait, your statement, "He says post trib was popular up until the world wars which started looking wrong in that they believed that the world was getting better and growing closer to purity. A more of an optomistic view" may have been what you meant. So, was it that they were "underinformed" because the events concerning the world wars had not happened yet. Is that the direction you were going or were you taking another tack?; March 24, 2009 at 9:07 AM
Dr. Randy Carney said...: I have considered the differnt views of eschatology (end times) and consequently how they related to interpreting the book of Revelation with much interest over the course of my ministry.

It seems to me this is one of those in-house debates that sometimes is discussed very vigorously.

In the twentieth and twenty-first centuries, as well as throughout history, many good Christians have held to different views. Obviously they cannot all be correct. On the other hand, each of them seems to contribute some things of value.

It seems to be that the book of Revelation is unique in that you can have such differing interpretations and still end up with proper applications. The safest thing, in my estimation, is to make sure any applications you draw from Revelation are also suported from other places in Scripture.

Now, the spiral view of history.

The Hebrews looked at History as being linear. History, to them, had a definite beginning and progressed along a straight line to a definite end. We can see much of that thought in the Bible.

The Greeks had a cyclical view of History. They talked about how History repeats itself, and they tended to view things as happening in repeating cyclical patterns. The is not completely contrary to biblical thought either. Solomon admonished us that "there is nothing new under the sun." In our own observations of History, we often say, "History repeats itself."

The former president and founder of Luther Rice Seminary (an excellent distance education institution, by the way), Dr. Robert G. Witty, wrote a book called "Signs of the Second Coming." In it he desribed the "spiral view of History." This view acknowleges that History has a definite beginning and that it is marching on toward a definite end, but it also acknowleges the cyclical patterns that have been observed throughout History. It would be like a spring that attaches at one end (a beginning) but goes round and round until it comes to the other end (the end). I see some commendable things in that thought.

We can all agree that Historical things have happened. We had the Old Testament era of History. Then Jesus was born, lived a sinless life, and actually died, giving his life as a ransom for all. After that, he rose again. This really is the focal point of History. We have the New Testament Church which has spanned over twenty centuries, and that brings us up to today.

If you apply a spiral view of History, you can see how it often appears to have multiple prophetic fulfillments. Some of these things seem to be foreshadowing of future events.

An example would be the type of "tribulation" the first century saints had. However, at multiple times in History, the saints have gone through persecution and "tribulation." Even today, there are many martyrs for Christ who do not make our national news stories. "tribulations such as the world has never known." Yet, there may be a future time even wors than all the others, "Tribulation such as the World has never known or 'The Time of Jacob's Trouble.'" So, our post-millenialist friends can show how Revelation seemed to relate to the first century. Our pre-millenial friends can point to what may yet be a future fulfillment of some of these aspects of Scripture. Our amillenial friends give us much good application as to how Scripture applies to our everyday living.

Concerning the "antichrist," the Bible tells us that spirit of antichrist is already come. In my spiral view of history, I see how this spirit manifests itself and grows throughout History, and that it may yet culminate in the embodiment of one individual.

Concerning the kingdom, it does indeed to me seem to have two aspects. One was described by Jesus to His listeners in that first century. He said, "the kingdom of God is within you." In a sense, we are all living out the principles of kingdom living, and Christ rules and reigns in our hearts. Yet, there may be a future fulfillment of this when Christ actually literally rules over this earth (and yes that may be for a thousand years).

Concerning the "rapture." Some people think that there is no such thing as a rapture apart from Christ's second coming. (This is the amillenial and post-trib premillenial position.) Others think that Christ will come and not actually set foot on the earth, and that the events described in I Thessalonians chapter 4 take place at that time. Some think the "tribulation" has a yet future fulfillment, and the "rapture" will take place at the beginning of that seven-year period. Others view the seven-year period as being divided into two parts, the first half being the "tribulation" and the second half being "The Great Tribulation." Some of those think the "rapture" or the events in I Thessalonians 4 will take place at that time. They are described as "mid-trib" pre-millenialists. Still other who believe the tribulation refers to this future time think that the rapture and the second coming take place almost simultaneously at the end of the tribulation period. They think the events of I Thessalonians 4 will be followed immediately by Christ setting foot on the earth as he comes in "power and great glory." In that sense our post-trib premillenialists and our a-millenialists agree, although they disagree on other points. At any rate, one thing is sure. I Thessalonians will take place somewhere in History. When it happens, all of us will be together. Someone may look at someone else and say, "See I was right, and you were wrong." The other person is likely to say, "O.K., but I really don't care!"

I think we should consider all of these approaches, and as we watch History unfold, we may see how they shape up.

The main thing for all of us is to be ready to face Christ, whether it be at the Second Coming or it be when we go through the valley of the shadow of death! We need to acknowledge Him as our King now!; March 24, 2009 at 10:24 AM

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You will notice some posts below that relate to various topics of discussion by our online community of preachers.

One of the purposes of Preachers' Meeting is to provide a place for young ministers or those recently called to preach to interact around the principles in a course of study recommended by our local group of preachers in the Southern Illinois area.

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Weekly Requirements

Here is a review of the general requirements for each week.

You have three assignments each week

(1) Make at least two initial posts in your posting area. The first one will be the name of the course, and the names (or numbers of the DVD's) of the chapters or lectures you will be covering during the week. The second one will be a comment on one of those chapters. You will receive one point for getting the first post in on Tuesday or Wednesday. You will also get a point for getting at least one more initial post in.

(2) Go to your fellow student's posting areas, and ask them a question or make comments about their intial posts. You will recieve one point for completing this assignment before 12:00 a.m. on Friday morning (that would be before midnight on Thursday).

(3) Answer the questions asked.

(4) On Fridays, I will also give directions for making remaining posts during the week. Be sure and read those, and take them into account when making at least one of your remaining posts.

In all, we want to make at least nine posts during the week. You will receive points for that as follows:

9 or more posts - 12 points

6-8 posts - 10 points

3-5 posts - 6 points

1-2 posts - 3 points

You will have the extra points you had accumulated by getting things in on time. Those are bonus points that will be used only to move your grade closer to 100 if you need them. They will be awarded each week if needed to move your grade up to 12 for the week. If you do not need them for that week, they will be carried over to the next week(s). Remember the posts that count for points will be at least three sentences long.

Thoughts on Application

Roger gave some good thoughts on application:

"Chapter 75, titled: 'Apply Within' is a lesson in application. The writer explains why it is sometimes difficult applying a sermon to real life situations. I will list some of the reasons application is not applied to our lives.

"First it is "hard work", it is hard to find application to every situation in the congregation,

"second, is wrong assumptions, assuming the audience is able to apply any and all biblical truths is totally a wrong assumption,

"third, is fear, fear of being to deep or to simplistic in the text and failing at application, and then there is training or lack thereof,

"many preachers know the text, and the history and the order of things but are totally untrained in application. One gentleman said it this way," how can you be a good football player when you can pass the ball, or when you can kick the ball, or when you can run with the ball but you don't know the rules of the game."

Marriage Seminar

If you live in the souther Illinois area, we would like to invite you to a Couples' Marriage Enrichment Seminar on Saturday, February 27. It starts at 6:00 p.m and will run to 9:00 p.m.

After the welcome, there will be a dinner. Then there will be an opening session, followed by two breakout sessions, then a short closing.

The Keynote Speaker is Dr. Randy Carney (That's me :)!) and Roger and Janet Dutton will be speaking during the breakout sessions (That's Roger, who is commenting on this blog during this term!). Randy and Rhonda (my wife!) Carney will also have a breakout session discussing "Keys to Marital Bliss."

The Keynote Address will be on the topic of "The Way to a Successful Marriage: The Shocking and Surprising Truth."

Roger and Janet will be talking about "Hope for Restoring your marriage."

The cost is $15.00 per couple and that includes a dinner and all seminar materials. A nursery and childcare will be available. (Please indicate that you need these services when you register.) A book table with resources from Handfuls on Purpose Christian Bookstore will be available.

The seminar is for couples of all ages, ranging from newlyweds to marriage veterans!

To register, call 618-627-2228 to let the church know how may will be attending. Payment can be made at the event. (Make checks to TFBC.) For more information, call the church at 618-627-2228.

The Greatest Love

Since Valentine's Day falls on Sunday this year, I imagine there will be a ton of sermons going out on the topic of love.

Paul talked about love and respect in marriage (Ephesians 5), but he was really saying that that was an illustration of the relationship between Christ and the church.

Christ
Left Heaven to come to this earth.
He
Overcame adversity while here. He even conquered death!
He
Valued mankind so much that He gave Himself on the cross.
He desires fellowship with us. He reconciled the world to Himself, so that people could have an
Intimate realtionship with Him.
He meets all of our
Needs.
He is the supreme example of
Giving.

Do you see the word, LOVING, there? That is what He is--our LOVING Savior! Because of that, we should love one another.

Connecting with Postmoderns

This is something most preachers do every Sunday. If you have young unchurched visitors in your church, you will be trying to reach postmoderns. Even some of your church youth are more influenced by postmodernism than by their previous Sunday school teaching.

Here is my reply to one of Roger's posts:

"Roger, what tips stand out to you for commecting with postmoderns? I think the term modern referred to an age in history that related to new thoughts in science, etc. (If I am off base, refresh my memory.) Post modern refers to the time following that era. Connecting with postmoderns is something you have to do, whether you realize it or not, almost every time you preach."

I will post some of his answers here if he sees the question in time.

Preaching--Proclamation of God's Word

Preaching, by one definition, is the proclamation of God's Word. As such, a person, can take the Scriptural passage and find some of its main points and emphasize those points.

While I believe we should learn all we can about the grammatical construction of the words of Scripture, and that we should learn all we can about the historical setting for when those words were originally spoken; the nice thing about proclaiming the Word is that you can just take what the text says and emphasize it. Then the Word will not return void.

People with all different types of backgrounds have been called to preach throughout the centuries. Some very "unlearned" (as the world would put it) men have had great results by simply taking the main ideas of Scripture and simply emphasizing them. As long as we do not twist the meaning, this simply shows the amazing power of the Word of God.