The Lily of the Valley--Song of Solomon's Analogies

The song, "The Lily of the Valley" uses great imagery that describes Jesus. Another one, is "His Banner Over Me Is Love." Some of these images come from the Song of Solomon. I think these are proper uses of analogies. The Song of Solomon has also been used by marriage counselors over the years to help people improve their marriages. I think this is also proper because it primarily does describe love between a husband and wife.

I think the way to use what we call "spiritualizing" is to use other Scripture to back up the spiritual analogies we draw from a statement or event. Sometimes, we can say, "The primary historical meaning of this passage is . . . , but it reminds me of . . . . (something that is clearly taught in Scripture--we can even show where that support is). Then go on to talk about the possible allegorical, metaphorical, or spirualized message.

This is a way of using analogy where you compare one thing with another. Just make sure both ideas have biblical support even if they appear in different parts of Scripture. Also, be careful of saying that this is exactly what the original Scripture (the one you are making a comparison to) intended. I mean be careful of saying the original Scripture intended to produce the analogy you picked out.

The New Testament uses such comparisons also when it talks about marriage being a picture of the relationship of Christ with the Church.

There can be value in spiritualizing a passage of Scripture, but we need to be carful with its use--especially careful not to come up with something that Scripture does not teach.

In the closing chapters of the book of Acts, there is a description of Paul going through a storm. I often use that to talk about how we go through the storms of life, but I always say that what the passage actually describes is the fact that Paul went through a real (weather) storm. Then I draw the analogies about how God helps us through "storms" (which can be clearly identified in Scripture.)

So, use spiritualizing, but make sure the comparisons are clear and reasonalble and that the comparisons can be backed up with the Bible otherwise.

Course 5 Week 5

We are now on the downhill slope. I hope your ride has been a good one so far.

Here is a review of the posting requirements once again:

You have three assignments each week
(1) Make at least two initial posts in your posting area. The first one will be name of the course, and the names (or numbers of the DVD's) of the chapters or lectures you will be covering during the week. The second one will be a comment on one of those chapters. You will receive one point for getting the first post in on Tuesday or Wednesday. You will also get a point for getting at least one more initial post in.

(2) Go to your fellow student's posting areas, and ask them a question or questions about their intial posts. You will recieve one point for completing this assignment before 6:00 a.m. on Friday morning.

(3) Answer the questions asked.

(4) On Fridays, I will also give directions for making remaining posts during the week. Be sure and read those, and take them into account when making at least one of your remaining posts.

(4) In all, we want to make at least nine posts during the week. You will receive points for that as follows:
9 or more posts - 12 points
6-8 posts - 10 points
3-5 posts - 6 points
1-2 posts - 3 points

You will have the extra points you had accumulated by getting things in on time. Those are bonus points that will be used only to move your grade closer to 100 if you need them. They will be awarded each week if needed to move your grade up to 12 for the week. If you do not need them for that week, they will be carried over to the next week(s). Remember the posts that count for points will be at least three sentences long.

Course 5 Week 5 Bonus Record

I will keep up with your bonus points here.

Course 5 Week 5 Tyler's Topics

Tyler,

Please place your initial posts and answers to our questions here.
Sean, please ask Tyler one or more queations here.
Visitors, click on the word, "comments," below to join the discussion.

Course 5 Week 5 Sean's Topics

Sean,
Please place your initial posts and answers to our questions here.
Tyler, please put one or more questions for Sean here.
Visitors, click on the word, "comments." to join our discussion.

Course 5 Week 4 End of Week

Good morning, Sean and Tyler,

This is the last day of week 4. I hope you had a good weekend.

Looking forward to your comments, wrapping up the week,

Randy

To Every Thing a Season

Sean and Tyler are both gone this weekend, working with the youth of their church. They, both, through careful planning have managed to keep up with their studies along with Christmas celebrations and youth outings.

To every thing, there is a season.

Enjoy yourselves, guys.

Hope to hear from you Monday--although I understand you might be exhausted. Oh, yes, remember--there is a time to rest too!

Course 5 Week 4 Response Postings

Good afternoon,

I trust you all had a great time with family and friends and indeed did have a merry Christmas.

In looking over your material, you are discussing varied books such as Psalms and Ecclesiastes. Yet, they do tie together.

Ecclesiastes tells us there is a time for everything. It even says there is a time to kill! This perhaps makes us think of some military actions. Anytime you have military action, you do have enemies.

In the New Testament, we are told to pray for our enemies.

I have always thought of this meaning that we are to pray for good for even our enemies; yet in Psalms we have examples of how David prayed for some of his enemies, and he was not necessarily praying good things over them.

How are we to pray for our enemies? Is David's example a proper example for us?

Please try to respond to this in one or more of your remaining posts this week--either in answer to each other's questions or in a comment that stands alone.

How should we pray for our enemies?

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas, Everyone,

I pray that you are having a wonderful and blessed holiday surrounded by family and friends. If this is a lonely time for you, I pray that you will have fellowship with your heavenly Father, just as David in the Old Testment and many other shepherds did in the solitude of their jobs.

If you have some painful memories during this season of the year--perhaps a loved one passed away or some other past events bring bad memories, I pray that you will be overwhelmed with the fact that God's mercies are new every morning, that we will be able to see our Christian loved ones again, and that, though not everything is good, everything can work together for good, especially to those who love God and who are the called according to His purpose.

If you are having a great time, live it up. Rejoice!
If you are having a difficult time, hang in there. Count the blessings you do have. Remember all that Christ has done for you. We have not experienced what He did to show love to us.

The two emotions of rejoicing and despair relate to the Psalms, which we have been studying as part of this course.

In it all, rejoice!

How God Uses Short Comments to Impact Lives

Sean posted the following: "The 1st dvd finishes up on Proverbs, it gives examples of what types of proverbs there are. Then he discusses subjects of the Proverbs. One subject he talks of is wholesome words vs. desctructive words. This is something that grabbed my attention, he reminds us of how good words spoken do more than we know sometimes. This reminds me of when I was in a leadership school, my instructor came up to me and said "You need to let your light shine Sean, you have a great one in you". This has always stuck with me and helps me when I want to give up. Do any of you remember something someone said to you that 'changed' you?"

Here is my reply as posted in his comments area:

Sean, you asked, "Do any of you remember something someone said to you that 'changed' you?"

"I remember when I was a young boy only about a year or two after I was saved. (I was saved at 11). My aunt was visiting our house. All at once in the middle of a conversation between my mother and her while I was listening in and sitting on a couch just a little distance away, she looked at my mother and said, 'You know, I always thought Randy would grow up to be a preacher!'

"She did not call me to preach, but she was right. Even then I had already considered the idea. Years later when I was a senior in college, the calling was confirmed so strongly I had to accept the fact.

"I was not resistant. In fact, in some ways, that is what I really wanted to do, but I wanted to be sure of God's calling.

"However, during all those years of wondering, I always remembered my aunt's statement.

"I don't know how much it changed me other than encouraging me, but it did have a profound influence on my life."

Do any of our visitors have a similar testimony? If you would like to talk about such an event in your life, click on the word "comments" below.

Course 5 Week 4 Bonus Record

I will keep up with your bonus points for the week here.

Course 5 Week 4

Good Morning, Sean, Tyler, and Visitors,

We will be half way through our journey in this course at the end of the week. I do realize that we have Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, and probably lots of family time this week. You may miss a day or two, but with good planning, you can still get in your required posts. You also even have some bonus points carried over, if you would need to use them.

I hope you hve a wonderful, merry, blessed, joyous holiday season this CHRISTMAS and New Years.

Here is a review of the posting requirements once again:

You have three assignments each week
(1) Make at least two initial posts in your posting area. The first one will be name of the course, and the names (or numbers of the DVD's) of the chapters or lectures you will be covering during the week. The second one will be a comment on one of those chapters. You will receive one point for getting the first post in on Tuesday or Wednesday. You will also get a point for getting at least one more initial post in.

(2) Go to your fellow student's posting areas, and ask them a question or questions about their intial posts. You will recieve one point for completing this assignment before 6:00 a.m. on Friday morning.

(3) Answer the questions asked.

(4) On Fridays, I will also give directions for making remaining posts during the week. Be sure and read those, and take them into account when making at least one of your remaining posts.

(4) In all, we want to make at least nine posts during the week. You will receive points for that as follows:
9 or more posts - 12 points
6-8 posts - 10 points
3-5 posts - 6 points
1-2 posts - 3 points

You will have the extra points you had accumulated by getting things in on time. Those are bonus points that will be used only to move your grade closer to 100 if you need them. They will be awarded each week if needed to move your grade up to 12 for the week. If you do not need them for that week, they will be carried over to the next week(s). Remember the posts that count for points will be at least three sentences long.

Course 5 Week 4 Tyler's Topics

Tyler, please place your intial posts and answers to our questions here. Sean, please ask Tyler questions here.

Visitors may join us by clicking on the comments below.

Course 5 Week 4 Sean's Topics

Sean, please place your initial posts and the answers to our questions here. Tyler, ask any qustions you have for Sean here.

Visitor may join us by clicking on the comments below.

A Psalm for Your Life?

Tyler challenged us with the following question: "I feel like the Psalms are a great collection of different feelings and thoughts. I sometimes wonder what I would say if I wrote a psalm about my life. Do you guys have any thoughts about it?"

Here is my response:
"Writing a psalm on my life: intriguing thought. I'm not sure what direction I would go, but I guess if I went back, I could possibly have written about feelings of discouragement. Then there were exciting times of unusual provision. I could have written a psalm of praise or thanksgiving." What about you? What would your psalm have been like?

Darkness to Light

We have been talking about Psalms that give us encouragement. Here is one passage:

Psalm 107:10-16 (King James Version)

10 Such as sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, being bound in affliction and iron;
11 Because they rebelled against the words of God, and contemned the counsel of the most High:
12 Therefore he brought down their heart with labour; they fell down, and there was none to help.
13 Then they cried unto the LORD in their trouble, and he saved them out of their distresses.
14 He brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death, and brake their bands in sunder.
15 Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men!
16 For he hath broken the gates of brass, and cut the bars of iron in sunder.

"Always Winter and Never Christmas" is a quote from C.S. Lewis in The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrove, one of his famous books upon which the movie, "The Chronicles of Narnia," is based. (This quote is pointed out by Mel Lawrenz, pastor of Elmbrook Church in Wisconsin.)

It may be winter for us, but it does not have to be winter without Christmas.
Days were dark at the time of Christ's birth.
Days are dark now.
Today is the shortest day of the year.

It will be winter, but the days will get longer.
The weather may be harsh, but the sun will shine.
In the midst of discouragement, there can be hope.
Hope may come to fuition in ways we thought were possible.
It may come about in unexpected ways (just as it did when Jesus came to Earth the first time).

We may experience winter, but we do not have to experience winter without Christmas.

Praise God for His Encouragement

Tyler and Sean have found the Psalms to be a comfort in times of trouble and a reminder that our worhip is to be done in an attitude of praise.

Tyler said,
"I really like Psalm 46. I feel that is a word we can go to when we are down. I really like the author talks about the bad things that could happen, and how God is still for us in this struggle."

Sean said,
"Psa 100:1 A psalm. For giving thanks. Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth.
Psa 100:2 Worship the LORD with gladness; come before him with joyful songs.
Psa 100:3 Know that the LORD is God. It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, the sheep of his pasture.
Psa 100:4 Enter his gates with thanksgiving and his courts with praise; give thanks to him and praise his name.
Psa 100:5 For the LORD is good and his love endures forever; his faithfulness continues through all generations. This Psalm I try to keep in mind when I go to church. It reminds me to go with praise in mind. WHiche leads me to expect something."

Praise God for His encouragement.

Response Postings

If you haven't already, go to your fellow student's posting area and ask one or more questions.

As you answer those questions or make more comments this week, look at the different types of Psalms that Sean mentioned. Show how that one of those types relates to your life right now (or has done so in the past).

Tyler, are you off work until called back, or are you just off for a few weeks this winter? If you are off indefinitely, is there a psalm that could relate to your situation during this time?

David's Feelings

Interesting point: that the books of history show some of the external things that David did, and the Psalms showed his feelings. We get quite a glimpse into the heart of a leader. we also get very personal looks at him when he had sinned and confessed his sin.

Remember the following:

"(2) Go to your fellow student's posting areas, and ask them a question or questions about their intial posts. You will recieve one point for completing this assignment before 6:00 a.m. on Friday morning."

Good job on all the information presented so far.

It Looks Like It Works

I have been having to use my othe computer for a while for this blog. Even though it is just in my office, it has been quite a hassle. It also is slightly slower than this one. Maybe, I'll get back in the swing of things a little better.

Course 5 Week 3 Bonus Record

I will keep up with your bonus points here.

Course 5 Week 3 Sean's Topics

Sean, please place your initial comments and the answers to our questions here. Remember to go to Tyler's area to ask him questions.

Course 5 Week 3 Tyler's Topics

Tyler, place your intial posts and the answers to our questions here. Go to Sean's area to ask him questions.

Course 5 Week 3

O.K. We are getting to start week 3. We will be learning more about the life of Job.
We can start with the initial posts. Here is the rundown again for posting:

You have three assignments each week
(1) Make at least two initial posts in your posting area. The first one will be name of the course, and the names (or numbers of the DVD's) of the chapters or lectures you will be covering during the week. The second one will be a comment on one of those chapters. You will receive one point for getting the first post in on Tuesday or Wednesday. You will also get a point for getting at least one more initial post in.

(2) Go to your fellow student's posting areas, and ask them a question or questions about their intial posts. You will recieve one point for completing this assignment before 6:00 a.m. on Friday morning.

(3) Answer the questions asked.

(4) On Fridays, I will also give directions for making remaining posts during the week. Be sure and read those, and take them into account when making at least one of your remaining posts.

(4) In all, we want to make at least nine posts during the week. You will receive points for that as follows:
9 or more posts - 12 points
6-8 posts - 10 points
3-5 posts - 6 points
1-2 posts - 3 points

You will have the extra points you had accumulated by getting things in on time. Those are bonus points that will be used only to move your grade closer to 100 if you need them. They will be awarded each week if needed to move your grade up to 12 for the week. If you do not need them for that week, they will be carried over to the next week(s). Remember the posts that count for points will be at least three sentences long.

Course 5 Week 2

Remember that the end of Course Five Week 2 ends today at midnight. Be sure to get all your posts in by then if you have not already done so?

Faithfulness During Suffering

How does observing someone remaining faithful during suffering affect you. There is a publication called, The Voice of the Martyer. That talks about up-to-date accounts of Christians who are being persecuted, tortured and martyred for their faith. When I read some of those accounts, I am challenged by my lack of faithfulness. Yet, I am so glad to know that God loves me, and that He has indeed provided salvation as the gift of God and not of works, lest I should boast. Does hearing of persecution or martyrdom challenge you?

Response Postings

In one or more of your replies or new posts, show how faithfulness relates to this course.

Continue to ask questions or make comments that are on topic for the course. Try to do enough of these to get 12 points for the week.

Faithfulness

Tyler said that "The author says that the real theme [of the book] is Job's faithfulness."

Sean agreed and defined faithfulness. He said, "Faith [is] knowing that we serve a God that does know what going on with us, and in the end, I believe you will somehow be glad it happened."

May the Lord help us to be found faithful!

Job--themes

One of the themes, aside from suffering, patience, and faithfulness, that I see in Job is the idea that troubles fall on the just and unjust alike. The New Testaments tells us that it rains on the just and unjust alike. Some troubles that come a person's way can simply be consequences for bad choices, or they could even be a part of the chastening of the Lord. Even though that is true, some troubles come our way simply because we live in this old world.

I guess the key to all of this, as both of you have mentioned, is faithfulness; but it is a faithfulness that goes through trials and troubles--even suffering.

Course 5 Week 2 Bonus Record

This is where we will keep up with your bonus points.

Course 5 Week 2 and Stress Test

All right. Now we are rolling.

I had a nuclear stress test this morning. This all came abut because of about five or ten minute and twenty seconds of minor pain.

The 20 seconds was about two months ago when I was doing something non stressful like running a TV camera. (It just was not stressful that day. Sometimes that can be very stressful--depending on what you are taping, doing a "live" program, on how well the director is getting what he wants, etc.) On this particular day, it was very easy and relaxing. Still, I had about twenty second of pressure that felt like it was pushing on my chest (or contracting from within).

Then last week, I had a different type of pain, minor, on the left side of my chest; but it lasted about five or ten minutes. The doctor really thought I should be checked out, so I went to the hospital this morning.

While on the treadmill, things went very well. When they were taking a second set of pictures after the treadmill to compare with some they took before, they were taking a really long time. Later they said I had an irregular heart beat at that time.

I won't know final results until Thursday or Friday. I went from apprehension to relief to slight confusion. Again, the treadmill was not a problem, and the doctor said he thought the cardiogram looked good.

With all of this, though, I know this is nothing like what you faced earlier, Sean.
I'm just glad, that, whatever happens, I know God is in control.

You have three assignments each week
(1) Make at least two initial posts in your posting area. The first one will be name of the course, and the names (or numbers of the DVD's) of the chapters or lectures you will be covering during the week. The second one will be a comment on one of those chapters. You will receive one point for getting the first post in on Tuesday or Wednesday. You will also get a point for getting at least one more initial post in.

(2) Go to your fellow student's posting areas, and ask them a question or questions about their intial posts. You will recieve one point for completing this assignment before 6:00 a.m. on Friday morning.

(3) Answer the questions asked.

(4) On Fridays, I will also give directions for making remaining posts during the week. Be sure and read those, and take them into account when making at least one of your remaining posts.

(4) In all, we want to make at least nine posts during the week. You will receive points for that as follows:
9 or more posts - 12 points
6-8 posts - 10 points
3-5 posts - 6 points
1-2 posts - 3 points

You will have the extra points you had accumulated by getting things in on time. Those are bonus points that will be used only to move your grade closer to 100 if you need them. They will be awarded each week if needed to move your grade up to 12 for the week. If you do not need them for that week, they will be carried over to the next week(s). Remember the posts that count for points will be at least three sentences long.

Course 5 Week 2 Tyler's Topics

Tyler, please place your initial comments and answers to our questions here. Sean, please ask Tyler questions here. Visitors, feel free to join the discussion. (Please wait till Tuesday to post here).

Course 5 Week 2 Sean's Topics

Sean, please place your initial comments and answers to questions here. Tyler, please use this area to ask Sean questions. (Please wait till Tuesday to post here. My Monday's post if farther down the page. You may have to click on "view older posts" to get to your week 1 comment areas.) Visitors are welcome to join the discussion.

End of Course 5 Week 1

I have enjoyed our discussions of the Bible and Poetry. I posted a few comments and questions in your topic areas. Be sure to check them out before going to next week's assignments.

I am going to put up you next week's topic areas today so they will be ready for you tomorrow. Remember posts in those areas will count after midnight tonight (Monday night).

Here are some poetic ideas I borrowed from W.A. Criswell, They do not rhyme, but they seem to be poetic to me. Again, this is my parphase based on his words.

(Speaking of Jesus, and emphasizing the fact that He died on the cross):
The head that was anointed by Mary of Bethany is now perced by a crown of thorns. The ears that heard the great cries of praise during the Triumphal entry are now deaf in death.
The lips that bid little children to come to Him are now silent because Jesus is dead.
That hands that blessed and healed many are now nailed to the cross.
The feet that took him almost everywhere he went, and that walked on water, are now fastened to the cross. For, you see, Jesus is dead.

The ideas go on. I Thinks this is sort of a poetic painting of the picture that Jesus truly died. Criswell goes on to describe the people surrounding the cross.

Then, after that, you can get really excited by talking about the fact that Jesus did not remain in the grave. He is victorious over death. (Hey did you see that parallelism I just used--using two sentences to state the same thing in different ways?)

Homecoming--Brian Free and Assurance

Today was our seventh annual homecoming at Unity. The quartet of Brian Free and Assurance was our featured singing group at 2:00 p.m.

They did a great job, and we had a packed house. It was great!

They sang a lot of "poetry"! (Ha!)

Poetry, Oh Yeah!

With all of my talk of saying that poetry sometimes confuses me (and it sometimes does in written form), I forgot that most of the songs I really like are actually poetry put to music. I do understand many of them! Oh, yeah, forgot about that. Thanks for your thoughts on poetry. If you have more include them. Otherwise, just try to finish your nine posts on any topics you like if you haven't already done so.

Response posting instructions

If you haven't already, go to the other student's topic area and ask a question.

(Your question posts can be shorter than three sentences and still count.)

Since you both have mentioned poetry, please discuss this a little further in your remaining comments for the week. You can discuss both English poetry and Hebrew poetry. For instance, do you like poetry? For some people, it really touches their emotions. For others, it just sometimes seems to be a confusing way to communicate. (Sometimes I am confused by it, at other times I like it.)

What advantages or disadvantages do you see in repetitions that are used to form the basis of Hebrew poetry?

If the instructor had any insight on these questions, please tell us what he said.

Along with answering each other's questions, give us a little information on your thoughts on poetry.

Switching Materials

Sean and Tyler,

Since you are both familiar with each other's materials, I will be interested to see what your discussion looks like this week. You can probably share insights with each other, and maybe talk about ways to apply what you have learned.

The main computer I uses is causing problems when I try to sign in on this site, but this one seems to work. We'll know if this actually posts.

Course 5

Good Morning, Gentlemen,

Thanks for the good start. When we started doing these courses. We followed a modified version of the general posting requirements that are used for the courses in Rockbridge Seminary.

We have been "tweaking" the procedures each course. I would like to do that again for this one. Again, we will need to earn 12 points a week, and an additional four points at the end of the course.

This will be accomplished in a way very similar to how we first did the course.

You have three assignments each week
(1) Make at least two initial posts in your posting area. The first one will be name of the course, and the names (or numbers of the DVD's) of the chapters or lectures you will be covering during the week. The second one will be a comment on one of those chapters. You will receive one point for getting the first post in on Tuesday or Wednesday. You will also get a point for getting at least one more initial post in.

(2) Go to your fellow student's posting areas, and ask them a question or questions about their intial posts. You will recieve one point for completing this assignment before 6:00 a.m. on Friday morning.

(3) Answer the questions asked.

(4) On Fridays, I will also give directions for making remaining posts during the week. Be sure and read those, and take them into account when making at least one of your remaining posts.

(4) In all, we want to make at least nine posts during the week. You will receive points for that as follows:
9 or more posts - 12 points
6-8 posts - 10 points
3-5 posts - 6 points
1-2 posts - 3 points

You will have the extra points you had accumulated by getting things in on time. Those are bonus points that will be used only to move your grade closer to 100 if you need them. They will be awarded each week if needed to move your grade up to 12 for the week. If you do not need them for that week, they will be carried over to the next week(s). Remember the posts that count for points will be at least three sentences long.

In the past, I had been doing the instructor's job and participating as though I were a student--trying to get the nine three-sentence long posts in along with you. This term, I will not necessarily be commenting in your posting areas as much as you are required to do so. I will make a post on the main page that relates to your books, to ministry in general, and to the requirements of the course.

This week is an introduction week. You may make comments about yourself, perhaps telling us about yourself, giving us more information about your past, hobbies, or interests. All social comments will also count this week (if they are three sentences long).

The easiest way to keep is to log on each day and make one or two comments to get started.

Course 5 Week 1 Bonus Record

I will use this area to keep a record of your bonus points.

Course 5 Week 1 Sean's Topics

Sean, please put your initial posts here and your responses to our questions. Tyler, please post some questions for Sean here.

Course 5 Week 1 Tyler's Topics

Tyler, please put your initial posts here and your responses to our questions. Sean, please post some questions for Tyler here.

Thanks for the Feedback

I was curious as to how you would respond to the 8-week format or the 5-week format.

Since you both said the 8-week is better (I liked that better too), we will go with that next time.

I really need to be off until next Monday, so we will start again next Tuesday. Of course you can read ahead until then.

Have a happy Thanksgiving!

Randy

Course Wrap Up

Please give information on which you like better, the eight-week format, or the five-week format?

This is the last day for this course.

Two More Days

I have sent your grades for weeks 2-4.

You both already have enough points to pass the course. This week will just be involved in earning enough points to get close to 100.

The test that was mentioned would be helpful for future courses. Also, I would give you 4 points for comments about how the five week course did or did not work for you.

Week 5

Fellows, sorry I missed the meeting Tuesday night. We will go ahead and finish this out as week 5, but the comments on your new material will count. I had a Chemistry unit for a course that I was writing that was way behind deadline. I also am way behind on your grading. You probably know how you are doing based upon the information given in the grading opportunities post. Writing some of those test questions would have been really helpful for future students. Since you have switched material you may not be able to do that.

We also need to evaluate whether you prefer 8 week courses or 4 or 5 week courses. (We've never tried a four-week one.) We originally started by following a simplified version of the courses offered through Rockbridge Seminary.

Week 5 Sean's Topics

Week 5 Tyler's Topics

Week 5 Ed's Topics

End of Week 4

Today is the end of week 4. Tyler is probably finished with the content of his book. For week 5, it would be helpful if each of you did come up with test questions as mentioned in the "Grading Opportunities" even if you have already reached your desired score of 80 (minimum) or 100+ (with bonuses). Sean, you may be finished, too, with your chapters. If not, please comment on the final one during the next week. I think Ed may be going with the option of just confirming that he has read the book.

I really do look forward to reading your comments and interacting with you. Sorry I haven't been as active in the last week.

I will go ahead and put up posting areas for each of you.

Revival and Ramblings

How was your revival (at Grange hall)? I know I read some comments about it. We are having our Fall Festival tonight. I have a feeling we may freeze--of course, maybe that is just the "old bones" speaking. I'm sure the kids will enjoy it.

When God was silent for 400 years, He did show up in a spectacular way. I guess we should be reminded that He will show up in a spectacular way once again. Life in the millenium or eternity (depending on your eschatology) will be radically different from what we know now. Even so, Lord Jesus, come!

Review of Grading Opportunities

The course will alow you to accumulate 100 points over the five week term.

Here is how you will accumulate your points:

(1) You will receive one point for each day you login during the week (maximum of 5 per week).

(2) You will receive two points for each quality post you make during the week (maximum of 20 per week). (Quality posts are defined as being on topic and at least three sentences long. Yes, the number three is arbitrary. Be creative if you have to. Most of the time, that requirement will get you rolling into much longer posts. One liners and humorous side comments are encouraged, but they will be in addition to the "quality posts," as defined above. (One liners and side comments can really spice up a cours :)).

(3) During the term, develop an objective-type test composed of 5 True-False questions, 5 multiple-choice questions, 5 completion (fill in the blank) questions and 5 matching items. Provide a score key for the test that also lists the page numbers where the answers to your questions are found. This will be worth 20 points.

This will give a student the option to accumulate 100 points plus 20 bonus points.

Any student who accumulates 80 points during the term will receive a satisfactory for the course. Since we have repeatedly said we will not "fail" anyone in this process. Only satisfactory grades will be recorded. (We have two other methods of documentation: "R" which means the student read the material, and "W" which means the student watched the DVD's.)

Week 4 Sean's Topics

Sean will put his intial posts here, and we will respond to them.

Week 4 Tyler's Topics

Tyler will put up his initial posts here, and we will respond to them.

Week 4 Ed's Topics

Ed will place his initial topics here, and we will respond to them in this area.

Week 4 posting area

We are beginning week 4 of our five week experiment.

I will put up three new posting areas for you again.

Catch-up Time

While we encourage posting at least 5 days a week, we do understand that sometimes there will be revivals and full weekends. Tomorrow is the last day of week 3. You will be able to catch up on your posting then. The only trouble with doing this in one day is that it defeats the purpose of our engaging in an online discussion that also helps us to be able to apply the things we are reading. Since Sean has some earlier posts, I do encourage the rest of you to respond to some of the things he has written. You will try to catch up on posting, and I will try to catch up on grading!

Quarterly Meeting

I Hope to see you all at the Quarterly Meeting this weekend. It's always a time of refreshing. Have a good day! I now I'm behind on posting last weekk's grade. Will try to catch up.

Randy

Week 3

Post your comments for week 3 in your posting areas. We need the title of your book, and the titles of the chapters (about 1/5 or 1/4 of your book) that we will be covering this week.

I hope you are having a great Revival at Grange Hall this week.

Week 3 Tyler's Topics

Week 3 Sean's Topics

Week 3 Ed's Topics

Overcoming Vanity

We talked about the vanity menitiond in the book of Ecclesiastes earlier this week. Then we talked about the change that comes when a person accepts Chirst into his or her life.

Recently, I heard from a young lady who has experienced both sides. She had that "clueless" vanity or emptiness that we all have before we realize the emptiness of it all without Christ. A couple of years ago, she accepted the Lord.

She moved to a different state for a while, then moved back here. A lot transpired during that time, and she drifted and slipped away from her commitment to the Lord. So, she once again realized the emptiness of living life without a relationship to Christ. She repented and rededicated her life. It's good to know that we can "come home" when we come to our senses.

We who know Christ are all tempted from time to time to return to the "beggarly elements of this life." We would do well to remember that doing so is simply vanity.

(By vanity, I meann meaninglessness, hopelessness or emptiness--not "being sold on yourself.)

Wow! Look at the Trees

It seems like it ia happening a little later this year, but this looks like the weekend to drive around and look at the trees. I drove three miles from my house to the post offie. Since I live in a rural area, I saw many beautiful trees, along with several fields upon which crops are grown. The sights were spectacular!

When we see what God has Created, it becomes so apparent that there is a designer behind it all.

When we realize there is a Creator, and we become willing to submit our lives to Him--which is not a burdensome thing to do--we begin to realize that life has a purpose. This causes us to move from vanity to meaning.

Articles to the Left

I meant to the left of this post, not a political-leaning left :).
There is an area to the left of this post that has articles on mariage. They hadn't changed for a while, but there are some new ones there. Check them out. If you know of someone struggling, or just looking to improve, in the area of their marriage, refer them to these articles or to The LOVING Way to a Christian Marriage: Six Keys to Marital Bliss.

Moving from Vanity to Meaning

Sean has been studying Ecclesiastes this week, which speaks of the vanity of life. He said, “[Ecclesiastes] speaks on how wisdom will help you prosper. Then [it] speaks on how nothing matters.” That certainly points out vanity and meaninglessness, doesn’t it?

Sean further says of Ecclesiastes, “The author said that a Jewish tradition is to read Ecc. once a year at the festival of tents. He said they pitch tents and relive the times in the wilderness. During this someone reads Ecc. from start to finish.” I guess that wilderness wondering was a reminder of the vanity of life without (or in disobedience to) God.

Tyler spoke of Jeremiah being known as the weeping prophet because “he [poured] his heart out for his homeland." Many today are concerned about the direction of our country. Some of that concern has to do with the understanding of “vanity” and how it affects our nation.

Jesus came that we might move from vanity to meaning. Jesus, however, did not come in the way that people expected. Tyler pointed out that one of the themes of Isaiah is "Messiah as suffering servant.” Ed commented, “I just finished up chapters 5 & 6 and found it to be amazing how all that Jesus did and all that he taught could not [convince] the Jewish people he was not the son of God.” Part of the reason they did not recognize Jesus as who he really was had to do with the fact that they thought he would look and act more like a king.

Ed pointed out how dramatic a change some people made in their lives when they became Christians. He asks, “Can you imagine going to your family and telling them I am now a [Buddhist] and a citizen of India.” Basically, that was how radical the change in a person’s life was when they came to Jesus. Why are people willing to face such drastic changes, and if need be, persecution? I think part of the reason has to do with the fact that we can move from a life that is full of vanity to one that is full of meaning.

Let’s look into this a little deeper as you reflect on your content. How does what you read relate to vanity, meaning, or changed life? If you have some answers to this question post them in one of the topic areas.

Visitors may comment by clicking on the word, “comments” below this post or below any of the posts in Sean’s, Ed’s, or Tyler’s topic areas.

Ecclesiastes-Vanity without God

I've often thought, reading through Ecclesiates, that it presents how people view life from a secular point of vies until you get to the end of the book. I always tell people to be sure and read the last chapter when they read it. Life is vanity without God. Sean, Did Bro. Yancey have a different take on this, or is this kind of how he views the book? What have the rest of you thought about this book?

Week 2 (Week6) Tyler's Topics

Tyler place your initial comments here.

The first one will include the title of your course, and the topics of the DVD's you will watch this week.

Week 2 Ed's Topics

Ed, place your initial posts here.

The first one will again give us the title of you book and the titles of the chapters we will cover this week.

Week 2 (Week 6) Sean's Topics

Sean, post your intial comments here. The first one will contain your book title and the titles of the chapters we will cover this week.

Course 4 Week 2

We are off to a good start with this go around of books and DVD's.

Your first post this week will again give the titles of what we will discuss.

So, in your first post, again, give us the title of your book. Then divide the remaining chapters or pages by four. That result will include the chapters we need to discuss this week. Give us the names of those chaptes.

Then post two initial comments in your topic area today, tomorrow or Thursday.

End of Course Four Week 1

Today is the end of the first week. All postings have to be in by midnight in order to count for week 1.

I have enjoyed the start we have had this week. The Psalms prove to be a blessing to us all.

I have a suggestion for the new project we have this term where you are asked to make up a test for the book you have read. It would probably be easier if you would make up one of each type of question as you go along instead of waiting and having to go back through your book on that last week (however, it could be done that way. It will probably be just a little more difficult.)

Have a good day as we finish up this week's discussion. Tomorrow, we will start on new topics.

I trust you had a good day yesterday. We had an unusual move of the working of God in the morning service yesterday. We had a twenty-year-old young man sing a special, and hearts were touched as people came to the altar. After that there were testimonies of some things that were going on in people's lives that directly related to the passage of Scripture that the Lord had directed me to for the morning's message. I almost closed the service without preaching, but when I saw how relevant the message was, I went ahead and hit at least the highlights of the message. I had a great sense of liberty, and I am conviced it was right to go ahead.

I hope you had good services also.

Moving Over

If you already have at least three comments in your own topic area, I encourage you to move to the other students' topic areas and make comments and ask questions there.
Let's deal with the truths that are presented, but show (or ask) how they apply to our lives--such as the testimony of how Scripture was such a blessing for Sean when he was in the hospital dealing with his tumor.

Bro. Ed was planning on trying to get on last night. Maybe he will be able to get set up today.

Have a great day!

Moving to the Practical Again

When we post in the first three days (Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday--since our weeks start on Tuesday and run through the following Monday), we more than likely will come up with some more theoretical stuff. The last part of the week, I want to challenge us to think of "Yes, but so what?!" The focus our attention will be on how what we have learned affects life. By doing that, I challenge us to ask those sorts of qustions of each other. If you know for sure that you are going to get those ten quality posts in during the week (the ones that have to be at least three sentences long) then you can get things going back and forth with one-liners, phrases, and even somewhat off-topic comments. The best way I know to do this is to try to logon almost every day and quckly make two comments on topic of the right length. Then just have fun without worrying about limitations.

I'm thankful for the comments already made this week. Tomorrow, we will try to get deeper into the material.

Tyler and Sean, thank you for welcoming Ed. Let's pray that he is able to get online with us without too much trouble.

Week 1 (Week 5) Sean's Topics

Sean, please place at least three posts here about what you are studying. Ed and Tyler, you may post here in response to Sean's posts. You may ask him a question (Be creative and put two sentences with the question if you want it to be one of your posts that count for the week.)

Week 1 Ed's Topics

Ed, please place at least three posts here about what you are studying. Tyler and Sean, you may post here in response to Ed's posts. You may ask him a question (Be creative and put two sentences with the question if you want it to be one of your posts that count for the week.)

Week 1 (Week 5) Tyler's Topics

Tyler, please place at least three posts here about what you are studying. Ed and Sean, you may post here in response to Tyler's posts. You may ask him a question (Be creative and put two sentences with the question if you want it to be one of your posts that count for the week.)

Tyler, I will save you the trouble and move your three posts that you have already made to the comments section below.

Click on the word, "comments" below to post.

Week One Introductions

This is the area to post your introductions. Click on the comments below, to do that. Tyler and Sean you may copy and paste your earlier introductions if you wish. Ed, please give us some information about yourself.

Here are some ideas to get you started
Have you been in ministry long?
Have you pastored before?
Have you been in music ministry?
Are you a computer whiz:)?
Do you have any apprehensions about taking this course?
Are you married?
Do you have children?
Grandchildren?
If you are bi-vocational, what other type of work do you do?
What course are you watching the DVD's for?
What book or books will you be reading for this course?
Do you have a question for some of your fellow students?
Do you have a humorous comment that could brighten our day?
And so on......

Comments in this section will count as quality posts.

Click on the word, "comments" below to make your posts. If you don't already have a g-mail account, you will have to sign up for one to make this work. There is no charge for signing up for g-mail.

Anoyone else wishing to join us may do so today.

Five-Week Grading Opportunities

The course will alow you to accumulate 100 points over the five week term.

Here is how you will accumulate your points:

(1) You will receive one point for each day you login during the week (maximum of 5 per week).

(2) You will receive two points for each quality post you make during the week (maximum of 20 per week). (Quality posts are defined as being on topic and at least three sentences long. Yes, the number three is arbitrary. Be creative if you have to. Most of the time, that requirement will get you rolling into much longer posts. One liners and humorous side comments are encouraged, but they will be in addition to the "quality posts," as defined above. (One liners and side comments can really spice up a cours :)).

(3) During the term, develop an objective-type test composed of 5 True-False questions, 5 multiple-choice questions, 5 completion (fill in the blank) questions and 5 matching items. Provide a score key for the test that also lists the page numbers where the answers to your questions are found. This will be worth 20 points.

This will give a student the option to accumulate 100 points plus 20 bonus points.

Any student who accumulates 80 points during the term will receive a satisfactory for the course. Since we have repeatedly said we will not "fail" anyone in this process. Only satisfactory grades will be recorded. (We have two other methods of documentation: "R" which means the student read the material, and "W" which means the student watched the DVD's.)

New Week One

Tyler and Sean,

We have an opportunity to try an experiment: Up to this point, we have been working on eight-week schedules. Bro. Ed Russell will be joining us, and we want to try a five week schedule. This will allow us to Switch books at our regular preachers' meetings. If you would, just start where you are in your books and join us for the next five weeks. As far as grading goes, you have the option of finishing the eight-week schedule using that grading scale, or you may use the new one. I will figure things both ways for you.

Course 3 Week 5 Posting Area

(We have another preacher joining us for the next few weeks. He will be going on a 5 week program as an experiment. I want to give you, Sean and Tyler, the option of taking you remaining chapters and finishing with him. I will try to give instructions about that tomorrow. (If you want to keep your present score and finish up in the next three weeks, you can do that too.)

Please post your comments for Week 5 (or Week 1 as the case may be) below.

Tyler, I will move your comments here to get them all in one place.

Preachers' Meeting Tonight

Good Morning, Sean and Tyler,

I look forward to seeing you at the preachers' meeting tonight. It is hard to believe that we are already half way through the course.

This is the first day of week 5. I will put up a new posting area right after this post.

Hope you have a great day!

End of Week 4

We wrapped up the sister course for Rockbridge Seminary today. I am glad to report that all students were able to get in their needed assignments on time. Three had some setbacks earlier in the course, but they came through with flying colors at the end. We need to get our Preachers Meeting posts in for Week four tonight.

I will talk with you further tomorrow.

Youth Rally and Time to Give

Wow! We had a 162 at youth rally even with all of the Homecomings and other activities going on in the area. God displayed an extra measure of grace because our final dress rehearsal/practice was a disaster! Things went off very smoothly Friday.

Time to Give: we were in II Corinthians 9 this morning. It seems the economy is on everyone's minds partly because of all the media attention to it and because of it being an election year. Commentators on the Point of View radio broadcast often remind us that the president can do very little about the economy. It is true that he can do nothing without the help of congress. His biggest opportunity is to influence people who can help. According to the news media, however, you would think the president can really control the economy. The candidates even perpetuate the myth by playing the game and talking about what they could do if they were elected.

Everyone has a need for financial well-being. We do all have a need to eat. We need shelter, etc. II Cor. 9 contains one way to improve your financial well being. That is to give. Doesn't that seem paradoxical? I mean, you need to get something and the advice is to give! However, the Scripture says that he that sows sparingly share reap sparingly, and he that sows bountifully shall reap bountifully. It also says that our giving should not be done grudgingly, but cheerfully. I'm told that the Greek word carries with it the idea of giving "hilariously!"

A paradox is something that appears to be a contradiction but really isn't. For instance, Jesus is both fully God and fully man. That seems contradictory, but both elements of the statement are necessary to describe Christ, and both are true. In a real contradiction, one of the elements is false. In a paradox, both elements are true. So, it is often paradoxical that when you need to get, you are prompted give without knowing how things work out. Then somehow they do work out and you receive unexpected blessings.

In my own life, I've seen these principles work time and time again with only two exceptions: One exception is where the times when I have failed to follow God's warnings about credit get away from me (since that involves other biblical principles, maybe that is not really an exception). The other is that God shuts off the extra provisons when He wants to get my attention. Beyond those two exceptions, God has done some amazing provisions for my family and me. It is almost paradoxical how it works!

Youth Rally

We are hosting the Youth Rally tongiht. Maybe I will get to see some of you there. I know there is a lot going on this weekend.

Place on the Beach

Hey, Tyler,

Do you think Sean found that place on the beach again? I mean this time, he would have a different book to hold upside down while he tried to make us think he was reading.

I just caught up the Rockbridge Seminary grading, but there is more to come. I'll try to do a better job for you guys next week.

Randy

Course 3 Week 4 Day 2

As always, please give us the name of your book or course. Divide what you have left by 5. Then tell us the names of the chapters or lessons you will be covering this week. Put your comments below the Week 4 posting area.

If your reading prompts some practical questions, ask them, and we will try to deal with them.

Course 3 Week 4 Posting Area

Please put your posts for week 4 here in the comments below.

My comments may be a little limited this week, as we are on the final week of the Rockbridge Seminary course. I will have a lot of grading to do.

Genres of Psalms

Tyler talked about the genres in the book of psalms.

"Dr. Reid also talked about the different genres in the book of Psalms. There are six types throughout the book. Laments express difficult times, while hymns are just the opposite. There are psalms of wisdom that deal with how to live right. Some psalms are about royalty or kingship. There are also historical psalms that talk about God's dealings with His people in the past. The last type is my favorite, there are psalms of trust. My wife's favorite verse is Psalms 91:11."

This will probably be helpful for Sean as he gets into next week's material.

Boundaries and Accountability

As much as I like what we have discussed in the companion course to the one we are covering here (This is the course from Rockbridge Seminary, where I am one of the professors. We are in the seventh week of that course, "The Theology and Practice of Ministry."), one of the things I have been concerned about related to the original ministry and vision of a church that becomes a permission-giving church.

I have a friend who gives a good definition of unity (even if may, or may not be, technically correct as a use of the word). He says that unity does not mean that we all agree on everything, but it does mean that we support each of us to do what God has called us to do.

Another aspect of ministry does relate to the role of a pastor. One of the things he (pastor/bishop) is to do is to be an overseer. If we take permission-giving to the extreme, what is this individual overseeing?

A bunch of "lone rangers" operting in the same geographic area does not necessarily constitute a ministry, does it? I mean, that could be several separate ministries. We have probably heard the analogy of "loose canons" floating around as being dangerous. How do we have this wonderful permission-giving culture, equipping and helping people discover their own individual ministries, function properly in such a way as not to be hampered and yet to be properly "overseen"? After all, the role of pastor (bishop) is a biblical role.

Therefore, I was quite encouraged to read the part of the lecture on permission-giving to see how it dealt with this issue:

Here is that quote:

"Boundaries and Accountability . Permission-giving churches do need boundaries and accountability. Permission cannot be given in a vacuum. Some circumstances call for decisions to be made. Freedom of choice within certain boundaries is the basic system for order and control. In permission-giving churches guidance and accountability come from the church's Mission, Vision, and Values Statements, and a clearly defined scenario plan. People are free to live out their spiritual gifts within these boundaries. Governing bodies exist primarily to provide an environ­ment in which individual members and teams can live out their spiritual gifts on behalf of the Body of Christ.

"Boundaries and accountability cannot come from rule books or procedures. No book of procedures is broad enough to avoid control. For boundaries and accountability to be effective requires clarity concerning the basic values of the congregation. These basic values define the corporate culture of the congregation. They are the compass to the future."

I like the statement, and I do think it is well worth the challenges (as far as causing it to come about goes) to implement a permission-giving culture within a local church ministry.

I certainly have enjoyed reading the Rockbridge students' own evaluations as to where they are in the process of develeping a permission-giving culture in the context of their own ministries.

Job's Double Blessing

Sean pointed out the following concerning Job:

"I liked when the author pointed out that Job was doubly blessed in everything except his children, eluding to the promise of being reunited with the ones he lost in heaven. Therefore he was double blessed there as well. Thats awesome!"

Visitors if you would like to comment, you may do so at the bottom of these posts. The bulk of our discussion is at the bottom of the weekly posting areas. You may scroll down to find the most recent one of those. You will find comments like the one from Sean that was just posted here.

Grapes and Raisins

The truths in Job are like grapes and raisins. All raisins are grapes, but not all grapes are raisins. The ideas presented by Job's friends are like the raisins. They were true, but they were not truths that apply in every case. The wider truths are there for more situations than what they were able to envision. The wider truths are like grapes.

Job's Question

My grandfather told me that he remembered what the preacher talked about at his grandmother's funeral. It is recorded in Job 14:14. "If a man die, shall he live again?"

That is the most important question in Scripture. All of the Bible actually is built around the answer to that question. God devised the plan of salvation before the foundation of the world. The answer is, "yes, if a man dies, he shall live again." Aren't you glad that eternal life is given to believers? It is given as a gift, and it is received by faith.

Course 3 Week 3 Posting Area

Please put your posts for week Three below.

Again, give us the title of you book or DVD course. Divide the number of chapters of DVD's you have left by six. That will tell you how many chapters, etc., you will need to read or view this week. Then give us the titles of chapters or topics or lectures that you will be covering this week.

Good job in the past.
Visitors may comment also.

Old Covenant/New Covenant

Several questions have surfaced about the use of the Old Testament in ministry. We know that Paul, writing under the New Covenant, said that the things written under the Old Covenant were to be ensamples (examples for us).

The Old Covenant was done away according to the New Testament, but it was replaced with a "new and better covenant." As a result many of the principles that were stated in the Old Testament (Old Covenant) are restated in the New Testament (New Covenant). The book of Hebrews describes this relationship very well.

When the Old Covenant Law againt murder was done away with, the principle that you should not murder was reinstituted in the New Covenant, and it was made even stronger when Jesus said that if you have hatred in your heart, that is just as bad as murder!

Most of the principles behind the Old Testament laws, ordinances and statutes, are things that can be "written on our hearts"! Therefore, the Old Testament is very useful for us today. We see where those principles are restated and strengthened in the New Testament, and we have examples that are helpful to us for Christian living.

This is the end of week 2 since our course weeks run from Tuesday through Monday. Anyone wanting to sign up for this term should read the posts below, and then send an email to rcarneysurvey@yahoo.com. If you want to buy the book that Sean is studying this term, you can look to the left and scroll down to an option to buy it.

The Blessing of Uprightness

Since we are studying the Old Testament and Hebrew poetry, I thought I would give you these thoughts from a section in Proverbs.

In Proverbs 11:1-7, we read of the blessing of uprightness. In order to fully comprehend this passage, we need to understand the three kinds of uprightness (uprightness and righteousness are used interchangeably here) that can be observed in society.

First of all, there is a general kind of uprightness that relates to having a good reputation. Somethimes those who are considered "good people" have a morality that matches Christian morality and Biblical principles. The problem with this kind of uprightness is that it can be colored by the relativism of society. This kind of uprightness can also match "political correctness" as well as Biblical morality. The problem with this is that "political correctness" is often (or at least sometimes) Biblically incorrect. Some examples would have to do with tolerance of abortion for any reason and promoting sexual behavior outside of marriage. Many today could be considered upright who are engaging in fornication and adultery. Society says living together and having sex outside of marriage is O.K. In addtion to that, political corectness would want us to condone homosexual behavior.

Secondly, there is an uprightness that strives to match the morality of the Bible, and this is done out of gratitude for what Jesus has done for us. The person exhibiting this kind of uprightness makes immediate changes in his (or her) life concerning little things, and he begins to exhibit "growth-type" changes in ideal things when he.

Thirdly, there is an uprightness that results when the righteousness of Christ is imputed to the believer when he or she puts personal faith in Him.

This chapter of Proverbs talks, perhaps, about all three kinds of uprightness, but I think it mainly describes the last two kinds.

What are the perils befalling those who are not upright? Their cheating is an abomination to the Lord. Their pride leads to shame. Their perversity will destroy them. Their riches will not profit in the day of wrath or at their final judgment. They will fall by their own wickedness. The unfaithful will be caught by the fear of their own lust. Their expectation and hope will perish.

What are the benefits of those who are upright? A just weight is their delight. A special measure of wisdom will come to the humble. Their integrity will guide them. Righteousness delivers from death. Righteousness will direct their way aright. Most of all, righteousness will deliver them: often in this life, and always in the next.

How do we get those second and third kinds of uprightness? We hear the Gospel and put out faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. Then we continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hopefully, the person who begins to exhibit Christian maturity will discover his or her own personal SHAPE for ministry.

Use of Old Testament

We have been talking about the Old Testament in this Course.

We realize that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. That certainly includes the Old Testament Scriptures as well as the New.

Bryan Chapell, in his book, Christ-Centered Preaching, gives a good way to preach on the Old Testament in light of the New Testament.

Newcomers, may sign up, without charge, through next monday. If you would like to join us, you could purchase The Bible Jesus Read, by Philip Yancey, or you may feel free to use any book on Bible or ministry that you already have.
If you would like to join us, please send me an email at rcarneysurvey@yahoo.com.

Newcomers

Newcomers are still able to join us through next Monday evening. After that, it will be too late to catch up as doing the course as a whole would allow. Visitors, however, are always welcome to comment or ask a question.

If you would like to sign up, please send an email to rcarneysurvey@yahoo.com. You will need a book about ministry in order to participate. At this point, there is no charge for signing up.

Course 3 Week 2 Posting Area

This week, we will get into the content of our course materials. Some of you may have started last week.

In your first post, tell us the title of your book or DVD course. Then divide the number of chapters you have left by 7. Round off that answer, and that process will tell you how many chapters or lessons we will discuss this week. Give us the titles of those lessons or chapters (for this week.) For your second and third posts, ask the other student(s) questions about two of their chapters--include a two (or more) sentence comment along with each question.

For your remaining posts, answer the questions asked and also provide short chapter summaries if you wish.

After (or before if we are sure we will get them in) we get in the nine required posts, we can go back and forth with shorter comments or phrases. Humor is good when appropriate.

The easiest way to get in 9 quality posts is to log in every day for at least 5 days (that is an expectation anyway) and make 2 quality posts each day. Then make other conversational posts regardless of length or even regradless of whether you are on topic.

Post your comments for week 2 below.

Course 3 Week 2 Equipping for Ministry

Several of you are in churches that have attempted to organize in such a way to make it easier to equip people for ministry. This past Spring, my wife, Rhonda, and I were able to take a cruise to the Bahamas as a result of answering some survey questions. Our church encouraged us to go (no, they didn't want to get rid of us :) ). While we were in Fort Lauderdale, we were able to go to the campus of Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church, where the late Dr. D. James Kennedy was pastor for many years. Dr. Kennedy developed an evangelism program that equipped his people to do the work of evangelism. His program, and book of the same title, is "Evangelism Explosion." His church campus had a bookstore that included his biography, which I purchased. I have just recently got around to reading it.

When he first invited several pastors to attend his church to find out what his church was doing, he had a vision to send them out into homes with people who had already been through his program. He asked at church, one night, "who do you think will go with the pastors when they are here to show them how this program works?" After an awkward pause, it dawned upon his congregation that he expected them to go with the pastors. They were quite intimidated at that thought at the beginning, realizing that many of the pastors had been to seminary or had years of experience in the Christian life. Finally, they agreed.

There were many testimonies from pastors and laypeople alike about what a blessing the experience was. Early in the week, the pastor just observed, by the end of the week, he was to take the lead in the eveangelistic presentation. This organizational technique came about, out of necessity becuase Pastor Kennedy could not go with all the groups. Interest from other pastors was the trend that drove this church to organize for this equipping ministry.

What trends drive our ministries toward equipping others? Dr. Kennedy's emphaisis was on evangelism. Our emphasis is on a wide range of ministries. Perhaps we have it figured out how to challenge people to discover their own ministries. How, then, do we make it possible for them to start those ministries within our church context?

You may comment on this question here on at the bottom of the week 2 posting area.
Newcomers may still sign up. See the previous posts about how to do that. If you have questions, you may contact me at rcarneysurvey@yahoo.com.

Welcoming New Signups

We are finishing up Week 1 of our online third term. If you would like to join us in our online learning, we encourage you to sign up. You would need a book about ministry or Christian living that you would like to study in depth over the next seven weeks. We will help you make sure that you cover the material, and we will interact with you concerning what you learn. If you can log in at lest 5 days a week, you can do this. When you log in, just make a couple of comments that are on topic in the comments section and that are at least three sentences long. You can make as many other comments as you like of any length, either on or off topic, to spice things up.

If you would like to sign up, just publish a comment right below this post, and we will give you further instructions.

Tyler and Sean, I look forward to getting into you material even more next week.

DVD's Match the Book

Tyler found out that he was supposed to have the book Sean is reading this time. Let's go ahead and try to do the course this way.

This should make for interesting discussion. Tyler you can do it however you would like. Use what your are learinging in class to ask Sean questions about what you see in the chapter titles. Sean, likewise, you can ask Tyler what the instructor said about certain things you read too.

Hi, Guys,

Since this is about an "anything goes" week, you might want to tell us about your salvation experiences, or you might want to tell us how you met your wife. You also might want to tell a good joke!

Anyone new can still join us. Scroll down and read those post until you come to the course 3, Week 1 posting area, and then click on the word "comments" right below that.

Dr. Randy Carney--Introduction

When I was 11 years old, I recognized that I needed a Savior after hearing a couple of class mates talking about being sure that they would go to Heaven if they died in some type of accident. That week, alone, I read John 3:16, a verse I probably already had memorized, and asked Jesus to come into my heart. I don’t remember all I prayed, but I do remember saying, “Jesus, as much as I know how, I give you my life right now.”

A couple of months later, I made a public profession of faith in the church my parents attended, Mt. Zion Free Will Baptist Church in Thompsonville, IL. Shortly after that, I joined the church.
I attended Rend Lake College and then Southern Illinois University (Go salukis!). During my senior year I became aware of God’s calling on my life and made a commitment to do whatever he wanted me to do. For several months, I was given opportunities to preach in local churches in the area. I graduated with a degree that had a major made up of a combination of thee minors: Chemistry and Zoology formed the equivalent of a major and I also had a minor in speech which I picked up in my senior year, thinking it would be helpful with the call to preach.

My denomination did not have a graduate school, so I attended three different seminaries: Memphis Theological Seminary, Midwestern Baptist Seminary, and Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. I returned to Memphis and graduated there with an M.Div.
After that I attended Luther Rice Seminary (now Luther Rice University) and had my first experience, albeit an extremely valuable one, with individualized and distance education. I graduated with a D.Min.

Along with pastoring, I have a background in writing and Christian Education. I was associated with Accelerated Christian Education in one way or another for fifteen years. I helped start a Christian school, worked as supervisor and principal, served as a consultant, and worked at headquarters as a writer, editor, and professor for their small Bible College.

My apprehensions, at times, are if I indeed will give this effort the time that is needed. More than that, will I be able to devote the steadiness that will perhaps be required. I think, however, that the apprehensions are slight and that the experience will be quite valuable.

My experience with online learning and teaching has to do with some indirect, transferable skills, and some direct skills. The indirect skills have to with the experience with Accelerated Christian Education. That organization was a pioneer in the mid-seventies in the area of individualized instruction. I experienced their process both on the field and from the standpoint of curriculum development, contributing heavily to their Earth Science, Biology, and Physical Science courses. Another indirect influence came through work done for Luther Rice University. Again, LRU was a pioneer in the area of distance education. I found the individual projects to be very demanding, and took advantage of every seminar, and tutorial that I could. Seminars and tutorials are now required. At that time they were optional. A direct experience is that of teaching an online course through Universal Class.com. I see that the format we are using in this course will perhaps be quite different and more interactive. I do look forward to being involved in this online community.

I discovered Rockbridge Seminary through The Ministry Tool Box. I have always been interested in mentoring and encouraging others and see this as a very good, challenging, and interesting supplemental ministry to my current pastorate.

My areas teaching and my ministry expertise include perhaps a somewhat unusual combination. As I said, my undergraduate degree was actually composed of three minors, although the Chemistry/Zoology combination serves as the equivalent of a major. About half of my ministry consisted of serving as “the second man.” I was either an associate pastor or served on a pastoral staff. The other half has been in the area of being the senior pastor. Some of my areas of expertise are science, speech/writing/communications, and pastoral studies.
I am quite excited about being a part of this online community, and can see that many valuable insights will be forthcoming from each of us as we participate.

Now, I've done my part (even if I did just copy and past it from somewhere else). I look forward to seeing your intros. Please feel free to comment on this post. Maybe we have something in common that neither of us were aware of. Since I copied and pasted, this might have been a little "overkill." Yours does not have to be as long, but please do tell us about yourself.

Just scroll down post your introduction in the Week 1 Posts comments section. New participants are welcome.

Course 3 Week 1 Posting area

Please click on the word "comments" below to begin your posts for this week.

Course 3

Welcome to the beginning of Course 3 here at Preachers Meeting. This week is an introduction week. It is a week where you have the choice of making purely social comments and getting credit for them. If you have introduced yourself before, you may copy that statement again if you wish. You also have the option of telling more about yourself than you did in the last class.

Remember, to get the maximum points each week, you have to have posted nine quality posts. A quality post for this course is defined as being at least three sentences long and on topic. Basically, this week, hardly anything is off topic.

Required: Everyone please tell us the title of the book or DVD course you are working on this term.

Optional: If you want to start commenting on your books this week: count the number of chapters and divide that number by 8. That answer rounded off will be the number of chapters you would need to cover this week. If you are doing this, give us another post telling us how many chapters you will be covering, and the titles of those chapters.

If you do not live in our area, but would like to join our discussion group, just follow these steps. Post one comment introducing yourself. Post another comment telling us the title of the book (must be related to ministry in some way) that you wish to discuss. Send an email to rcarneysurvey@yahoo.com giving me your email address so I can send your grades to you.

Participants may sign up any day this week.

What is involved in the course?
The course runs for 8 weeks. You are expected to check in about 5 days a week each week. You will need to attempt to make nine quality posts each week. You will receive points as follows:
1-3 posts = 2 points
4-6 posts = 6 points
7-8 posts = 9 points
9 or more posts = 12 points

You can signup by clicking on the word comments below the course 3, Week 1 Postings area.

Moving to the Practical

I have been keeping us updated on the journey of the Rockbridge Seminary course that I have been "teaching" (acutally, I am just being part of the learning process with a little more responsibility, perhaps.) We have completed the first half of our journey through this course. Where has the time gone? We have discussed many ideas for helping people to discover their ministries. While we have had practical examples interspersed in our previous discussions, this week, we are moving into the "yes, but how?" aspect of some of these discussions.

Some of what we will discuss will not involve new ministries, but will simply identify and perhaps refocus existing ministries. Other means of developing ministry will be focused on revitalizing existing ministries that are perhaps waning. (One practical note--sometimes some ministrries should be allowed to vanish if they are past serving their purpose.) Then we will also wrestle with how to implement new ministries and how to make those ministries a vital part of the church. How do you have sponteneity and accountability? What limits are to be set if a ministry want to fly under the banner of the church?

The second half of the journey has the possibility of being even more exciting than the first half. I am excited to begin this new journey.

Tonight, will be our local preacher's meeting. I am looking forward to it, and am looking forward to starting a new term of classes with my fellow ministers there.

Personal Ministry Statement

I was sick yesterday (and not too well today), I'm thankful for those in our congregation who exercised their ministries by "filling in" for me. I heard good reports.

Our Rockbridge Seminary class will be turning in "Statements of Minstry" this week. I look forward to reading them. I guess our views will be forever shaped until we see Christ face to face, but until then, it is good to assess where we are in our personal journeys.

I have been challenged in this area in the last few weeks

Anybody want to share their personal view of ministry at this stage in life?

New Term

This Tuesday evening, those of us who going through these courses locally will get their new materials. If you do not live in this area, but would like to join our online discussion, just post a comment at the end of these posts, either today, tomorrow or Tuesday. You will need to have a book, course, or video or DVD about ministry that you want to go through over the next eight weeks. Tell us what book or course you want to discuss, and then you can join right in with us.

Moving in a New Direction

Our Rockbridge Seminary course has focused on the equipping role of pastors when it comes to involving the members of our congregations in ministry.


Moving toward a new paradigm:

We see the experience of co-dependency between the pastor and the congregation in some traditional mindsets. One student pointed out that, in general, the pastor has become co-dependent on his church, where "he gets his sense of value by doing many things, hoping to please God and others and going to great lengths of self sacrifice in this effort.” Others see this as being related to “omnicompetence”: According to one, “Growing up in the church, I've seen many types of pastoral omnicompetence. Pastors feel that they must be everything for every person. What an exhausting lifestyle, but it does feed the ego.” Another gives a personal struggle: “I personally struggle with the model of omnicompetence. I like to be known for having the answers and being able to help people. A result of this is that I used to find myself spending too much time on things that are outside of my specific calling.”

Others see the move in a new direction as good, but they also see new ideas becoming old traditions. I have had the wonderful privilege of being involved in a relatively new work that started almost from scratch. The wonderful things was that we did not have any traditions (although we all did bring some “baggage” with us). We were able to try new things. Now that we are going on our ninth year, I find that we have developed our own traditions, and we are in the place where many could begin to say, “We haven’t done it that way before.” Another student in our class pointed out something similar in church history when he said, “This is not unlike the time of the reformation when many left the Catholic Church and followed Luther to form the Lutheran Church. The not so funny part is that often these “new” entities experience some of the same problems they left and undergo their own growing pains and pruning by God.”

Yet, we do some moves in the right direction. One student is experiencing some exciting things: “There is a big difference in the "top-down" type church which invites me to actually be more than a work-horse that is available and willing to do the tasks or activities that need a warm body to complete rather than a ministry opportunity that matches my gifts or passions.” Another sees some other things, when he observes, ”The other force that I see in play is the fact that our church members truly seem to excel not in the administration of ministry but in the actual work of ministry. I know part of this is because not many are administratively gifted and I've noticed they are motivated by being able to directly meet needs of others.”

Our friend, Roger Odom, who has a ministry to/in Mexico may wonder how this plays out. One of the students in the class, who is currently ministering as a missionary in Mexico sees what we have been talking about as completely different in the culture of Mexico, but does see some move in a new direction: “Our shift is in its infancy. If anything, this is a matter of teaching and equipping because of the vision of the missionaries here. We (including our predecessor) have been and continue to work with and pray with our pastor, submitting to his authority but gradually introducing new ideas to him. We are slowly building confidence and hope to become even more of a “leadership” team with him.”

May we all see good successful moves in a proper direction in our ministries, and, when they come about, be reminded that new directions may need to be implemented at that times. After all, corporately, we are a growing “organism.”

Do you see your church as an "equipping" church? If so, what are some things you could share to help others?

Comparing Ourselves

Several posts have been posted in the Rockbridge class about comparing ourselves with others. We see both good (following others as they follow Christ) and bad (when we put ourselves down).

In II Corinthians 10:12, Paul spoke of comparisons. "For we dare not class ourselves or compare ourselves with those who commend themselves. But they, measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." (NKJV)

We just need to know that, most of all, God created us just like He wanted us. Because of that, I encourage you to use your style, gifts and strengths to God's greatest advantage.

Improper Priesthood

One of the great things that came out of the Reformation was the idea of the priesthood of all believers (which comes from the Bible where it says we are a kingdom of priests). We are to fulfill some priestly (biblical--not Catholic) roles in our ministry.

Do you think that creating situations where people build dependence on us can lead to an improper role of priesthood? Knowing we are helping others often helps us feel good. Do we sometimes allow people to depend on us too much, when we could be empowering them? I had a friend who gave me this quote: "At no time will your problem become my problem. For, then you wouldn't have a problem, and (dramatic pause here) I like helping people with problems!" While that is a little humorous, our role of being able to intercede for others and helping others is proper. Creating dependence upon us instead of upon the Lord is improper. At least that's how I see it right now. How do some of you see it?

Yearly Meeting

The Yearly Meeting got off to a good start last night and continued throughout the day. Bro. Kevin McNeely preached about stirring up the remembrance within us. Bro. Roger Odom's message was about The Greatness of God, and Andy Lee challenged us to hang on to the joy and peace the Lord can give. Bro. Rusty Carney is to preach tonight.

How Can Feelings of Inferiority Be Helpful?

We have had a discussion in the Rockbridge Seminary class, The Theology and Practice of Ministry, about "How can I be a priest when I feel inferior"

I find it interesting how that people who seem to be so outgoing deal with inferiority. The song leader (minister of music, worship leader, whatever you want to call him) in one of the churches I have pastored seemed to be one of the most outgoing extroverted individuals you might meet when he is leading music or teaching a class; however, he mentioned being in a workshop for his work where the leader asked them to place themselves in a line with being on the left end of the line as being very introverted and being on the right end of the line as being very extroverted. Someone started, and then others placed themselves next to those standing where they thought they would be on the line. When it came his turn, he asked where the starting point was, which would also be the designation of very introverted. Then, instead of placing himself there, he walked way over several feet even to the left of the starting point. What a surprise to almost anyone who observes him when he is ministering to a group!

Several in this class have transparently mentioned feelings of inferiority. One described an inferiority mindset, yet he serves in a position that to many of us would seem to be outgoing or confident. “I am a worship leader and have a passion for leading others to worship. That primary expression is through music.” That reminded me of our worship leader.

Another student sometimes feels inferior because of his youth, but he has got a handle on things when he says, “However when I really step back and look at the whole scheme of things I realize that I have such a blessing to be in ministry so young and be learning things that my mentors didn't learn until they were much older.”

Some of us in dealing with our inferiority compensate by forcing ourselves to go a little further in the other direction. I can identify with the student who said, “I have, in the spirit of self defense trying to rescue my 'sorry unwanted self', taken on quite the attitude of self-reliance. Which leads to and become the attitude of superiority.”

Even if we experience some feeling of inferiority, we often do not want to ask for help. As another student said says, “I understand we are created for relationship and do not at all feel 'put out' when someone needs something from me, but, boy oh boy, will I bend over backwards to avoid 'needing' anyone else.” That kind of expresses our compensating spirit of self-reliance that the student mentioned above.

Feelings of inferiority can be a blessing when they produce in us a true spirit of humility. After all, God resists the proud, but He gives grace to the humble! Once we get past feelings of inferiority, or if our desire to serve overrides those feelings, we are interested in discovering our spiritual gifts and other strengths. One of the students talked about the use of “Network,” which she described as a great resource, in her church: “I thought the program was done very well and it was well received at our church. We failed, though, at the follow-up (a re-occuring problem!).”

How could we help others see the need to discover their ministries and to function as priests? One person suggested: "On[e] thing about post-moderns is they want to be connected to the past, so one could teach about the ancient role of the priest and the ancient use of sacrifice in a relevant way, and then connect it to the new covenant.”

This is a good start to some of these issues. I look forward to hearing some more about how to handle them.

Jesus Prayed for You!

Jesus was trying to prepare his disciples for the fact that He would have to go away. Peter, in Luke 22:31-34, told Jesus he would follow Him and vigorously defend Him. Jesus let Peter know that it would not be long until Peter denied Him three times. He also told Peter that Satan had desired to have him (Peter) so that he (Satan) may sift him as wheat.

It was not one of Satan's cohorts, but Satan Himself. That would be a terrifying revelation. Would it not? Jesus then reassured Peter by saying that He had prayed for Him that "[his] faith would fail not."

Would you like to know that Jesus has prayed for you. He did! We are told about it in John 17:6-26.

Jesus started this prayer out by askig the Father to glorify His Son (Jesus, Himself) who gives eternal life. Then He states that eternal life is to know the Only True God and His Son, whom He has sent.

Jesus then prays for those the Father gave to Him. Who were they? The ones who believed on Him, even upon His name, are the same ones the Father gave to Jesus.

What were these individuals like? They kept His Word. They knew that everything given to Jesus is from the Father. They received the Words of Jesus, and they believed the Father sent Jesus.

What did Jesus pray for these individuals? He prayed: (1) that God would keep them, (2) that they may be one, (3) that they may have Jesus' joy fulfilled in themselves. (4) that God would keep them from the evil one, and (5) that God would sanctify them by His truth.

But what about us? When did Jesus pray for us? Right after that, Jesus said that he prayed not only for his followers during that time but also for those that would believe their words. That includes us.

What did Jesus pray for them who would believe in Him through the Word of those then present? (1) all of the above, (2) once again, unity among the believers, (3)that they would get glory, which He gives, (4) that they (we) may go to be with him (this, of course, happens at the death of his saints), (5) that they may behold His glory (again, in Heaven, this will surely happen), and (6)that the Love of the Father may be in them.

Satan may desire to have you. Take courage. Jesus has prayed for you.

What does this cause you to think about intercessory prayer?

Today's Society and Its Response to Authority

In the course I am teaching for Rockbridge Seminary, one of points of study is the idea of a minister as a slave. One of the students made a comment about authority, saying that post-moderns (post-modrnism describes how many in today's society think) bring with them a rejection of authority--both to propositional truths and to individuals in authority.

When I was in seminary, we had a leader in the community who worked with inner-city youth address our class. One sentence stood out to me. He said, "We try to teach these young people the importance of obedience (or submission) to legitimate authority." His point was that not everyone telling them to do something was in a position of legitimate authority. (This idea is also good to teach children that they do not always have to obey their elders. Then they can be instructed in ways that would protect them from child abuse.) On the other hand, there is such a thing as legitimate authority. The man who assured Jesus that he knew his child would be healed said that he knew that would happen because "I am a man under authority." He actually, however, was also a man who commanded many people under him.

Post-moderns would do well to learn that propositional truths expressed in Scripture are legitimate words of authority (their natural bent, hopefully would help them not to get caught up in this in leagalistic ways, however--or maybe we woud need to give instuction as to how to approach Scripture as an authoritative word without falling into legalism.)

Post-moderns would also do well to realize it is good to submit to proper authority in their lives. To be a servant is a good thing when it is not done in a cultic fashion. Figuring out what or who is legitimate authority is sometimes a challenge for all of us. Yet, who would have had a greater opportunity to struggle with this than Jesus, Himself, when he was on this earth? One of the most profound statements in Scripture is found where it says (after Joseph and Mary found him as a young boy in the temple talking with the teachers of the Law) that he went back to Nazareth and was subject unto them! He was subject unto them even though He knew more than they did! He was subject unto them even though they were sinful and He was not (imagine that challenge)!

Christ's example shows us that when we are under legitimate authority, we should be subject to that legitimate authority even if we know more than they do. (Jesus had all knowledge.) Further, His example shows us that when we are under legitmate authority, we should be subject to that legitimate authority even if we are farther along spiritually than the one over us us. (Jesus was sinless.) (Disclaimer: this does not eliminate the chance to appeal to the authority over you, nor does it mean to follow someone who would lead you in direct opposition to God and His Word.) The balance is to follow where you can and when you can.

(Hey, there's a message in there somewhere--I've given you two points. A third I used when I gave a message on this subject was that we all need to be subject to the Lord when we respond to Him in the area of salvation. Feel free to take these ieas and run with them :).)

The class's comments just got me to thinking about post-moderns and our discussion of the minister as slave.

Do you have any insights about how to balance our need to be in subjection to earthly authorities and our need to not be led astray?

Jesus' Examples for Ministry

Since part of Rocbridge Seminary's course, "The Theology and Practice of Ministry" deals with Christology, we are challenged to observe Jesus' examples as we reflect on the ideas of the minister as priest, servant, and manager.

When we do this reflection, let consider how Jesus provided examples of the ideas presented, and then show how following some of those examples plays out in everyday life today.

How would you explain this concept to someone who has no Christian background, but had heard the Gospel, believed and trusted Christ? How does Jesus' example of exhibiting all three of the characteristics as priest, servant and manger motivate us to ask the Lord for balance in our lives?

If you would like to learn more about Rockbridge Seminary, vist http://www.rockbridgeseminary.org/.

Relationship, Roles, and Minstries

This week, at Rockbridge Seminary, the course, The Theology and Practice of Ministry is focusing on the roles of minister as priest, slave, and steward (household manager).

When it comes to helping people discover their ministries, there must be an emphasis on relationship with Christ and personal passion. One pastor friend of one of the students made a good comment:“You can ‘serve without loving but you cannot love without serving...” This insight points to the need for relationship to shape our ministries.

Almost every ministry needs help in some areas that may not match people’s primary passion. One thing that will help when filling those needs is to describe them as “secondary ministries,” and to let people know they do not have to be locked into those positions forever. The goal is to have every Christian discover his or her primary ministry. Also, we would do well to eliminate as many programs as possible that do no match the primary ministries of people.

The “Yes, but how?” aspect of this is the challenge we face as church leaders.
In discussing our roles as priests, slaves, and managers, we will gravitate toward one of these because of the particular ways God has shaped us for ministry, but, in our desire to serve Christ, we will ask Him to make all three of these qualities known in our lives.

For a while at our church, we had unusual groupings for our Sunday School classes simply because we only had classes where the teachers felt led to teach instead of having the classes and trying to force someone into those positins.

What are some ways you help people discover their primary ministries?

How Can You Serve When You Are a Ruler?

Some people have the gift of ministry or serving. They are motivated by that service. They are fulfilled when helping. Some people have the gift of administration or leading or what is sometimes called "ruling." Then, in addition to that, people with all kinds of gifts are placed in positions of responsibility.

How can someone with the gift of ruling and also a responsibility of leadership fulfill the "slave" model? The same question could be asked of Jesus. If anyone has the right to rule our lives, it is certainly He. He left Heaven's glory, and came to this Earth. The almighty powerful ruler of the universe was subject unto his parents. The almighty powerful ruler of the universe allowed Himself to be mocked and spit upon. He allowed Himself to be betrayed and crucified at the hands of sinful men.

Jesus is indeed the example of how a ruler can be a servant. If you are struggling in that area, just look to Him.